Selenium – tlc

Blog: Public Project Meeting - July 15, 2021

Thu, 15 Jul 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on July 15, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 9:00 PM

Here is the agenda proposal:

General project statistics

Previous meeting: 170 open issues, 23 open pull requests
Currently: 168 open issues, 25 open pull requests
Pending work for the RC 1?
Server - Grid
Hub reports Nodes going down https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/docker-selenium/issues/1257
TimeoutException https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9528
IE Stopped working on beta 4 https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9600
Language bindings

“se:cdpVersion” is missing in C# and JS

Can all bindings do CDP over Grid?

What are the features present in Selenium 4?

Do all bindings implement them

9:01

@AutomatedTester @Puja Jagani @barancev @jimevans @titusfortner @p0deje @harsha509 please tag the ones I forgot

Titus Fortner 9:02 PM

Documentation theme change update

9:03

(I know you’ve been busy)

David Burns 9:04 PM

The python ci will be green today

Diego Molina 9:04 PM

ok, so let’s start

Regarding bugs we had, with @Puja Jagani we fixed the queue issue, so now the Grid runs enough sessions in parallel

9:05

but we still have 3 open issues, mentioned in the agenda

the timeout one has proven to be hard to reproduce, and therefore fix

David Burns 9:05 PM

I was able to reliably recreate the timeout issue. We were hitting issues in chrome that makes us think chrome is breaking

Diego Molina 9:06 PM

really? The original issue is reported with Firefox

David Burns 9:06 PM

Well, I am getting the timeout message, like with Firefox, with chrome 91

9:07

And it’s like the browser tab has hung/crashed and it manifests

@Puja Jagani has the script and I will help reduce if I can

Simon Stewart 9:07 PM

I need to do some rework of NetworkInterceptor to allow everything to be intercepted

9:08

And I think https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9594 is fixed by https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/commit/0795e78559924be1b69b4c8051f5185f289a4268 #9594 Hub reporting no available nodes after a few hours https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium|SeleniumHQ/seleniumSeleniumHQ/selenium | Apr 8th | Added by GitHub

Diego Molina 9:08 PM

I think @Puja Jagani saw the issue this morning, and she said she was having a look

Simon Stewart 9:09 PM

Darn it. I thought we had it fixed

Though we don’t handle the case automatically. I manually tweaked things to make that work

David Burns 9:09 PM

Shoutout to Puja for looking at ALL THE THINGS

Simon Stewart 9:10 PM

+1000

Diego Molina 9:11 PM

aside from those two, now looking into the IE issue with Grid\

as the Grid is sending and invalid JSON to the IEServer

Jim Evans 9:12 PM

um, se:cdpVersion was implemented in .NET in f10cb89

Simon Stewart 9:12 PM

Woot!

Diego Molina 9:12 PM

great, I will update that item :tada:

on the client side, we still need to find time to build the feature parity doc

9:15

Aside from those items, I can give an update on the new (or reworked) website

9:16

I’ve been spending 1-2 hours per day, for now I am only building the website as it is, not digging into the docs yet

Titus Fortner 9:16 PM

“digging into the docs” == “updating the docs theme” ?

Diego Molina 9:16 PM

so, everything below the about menu is already implemented

Titus Fortner 9:16 PM

or writing the docs

Diego Molina 9:17 PM

and I still need to create pages for these links

Titus Fortner 9:18 PM

that all looks great!

Diego Molina 9:18 PM

to bring context, our website is made from two different Hugo themes, glued together during the build process and a few hacks in between

I’ve found https://www.docsy.dev/ a good alternative since it offers a good theme that can contain both things in one

9:19

this requires to recreate our website using the docsy theme, this part is around 60% done then we need to migrate the existing docs into the new theme

9:20

migrating the docs could be done as a task of copying and pasting or we could see it as a chance to reestructure and organise the existing content, and adding a few things more

9:21

if we want to reestructure, it would be nice to see proposals (like a global TOC with brief descriptions of each item)

9:21

then we can reuse what we have currently, and add what is missing

Titus Fortner 9:22 PM

So code snippets would look like this: https://gist.github.com/harsha509/e690dd2c72f1f5c5785be4c8a47c87fd

Simon Stewart 9:22 PM

Lift and shift first, rework second

Diego Molina 9:22 PM

code snippets is an implementation detail

Simon Stewart 9:22 PM

(That is, let’s open the door to contributions first, then figure out how things should be shaped)

Titus Fortner 9:22 PM

I get it’s implementation

9:23

but that’s the piece I can help with :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 9:23 PM

right now they look similar to that, so it could be a matter of adjusting things

9:24

ideally, the future for code snippets is to render code stored in GitHub, so we can execute it in GitHub actions for example

Titus Fortner 9:25 PM

I guess the question I had about it (what I tried to figure out a few months back and failed) is if there’s a way to point to a repo like you & Christian built for Docusaurus :smile: (another implementation detail) But… there’s nothing preventing us from writing that code now and figuring it out later

David Burns 9:25 PM

I like rust for this reason… when you run tests it also tests the doc snippets

Titus Fortner 9:25 PM

@p0deje implemented that for Ruby

9:26

it’s really neat

I’ll try to find time to propose something here and try to get feedback from people smarter than I am about these things https://seleniumhq.slack.com/archives/CBH302726/p1626364266427200

Diego Molina

if we want to reestructure, it would be nice to see proposals (like a global TOC with brief descriptions of each item) Posted in #selenium-tlc | Today at 9:21 PM | View message

Diego Molina 9:28 PM

all WIP is committed, so if someone wants to have a look, please check https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/seleniumhq.github.io#wip-moving-to-hugo-docsy-theme

SeleniumHQ/seleniumhq.github.io Official Selenium website and documentation Website https://selenium.dev/

Titus Fortner 9:29 PM

Nice work on all of that

Simon Stewart 9:29 PM

Agreed. Excellent work, @diemol. Thank you

Diego Molina 9:29 PM

hopefully I can have the site migrated in a couple of weeks, then we have focus on the docs

9:30

I do not have any more topics, does anyone have something else?

Titus Fortner 9:31 PM

Hopefully I’ll have all my ${paidWork} code in a good place at that point to take a break

9:32

I also promised the chromedriver team that I’d help fix up their Ruby code

Lots of things to update

9:33

Right now I’m busy updating all of my Java test examples from JUnit 4 to JUnit 5 thanks to @Puja Jagani

Diego Molina 9:36 PM

ok, so it seems we are done with today’s public meeting, thank you everyone!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - June 17, 2021

Thu, 17 Jun 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on June 17, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 8:52 PM

Here is the proposed agenda:

General project statistics

Previous meeting: 167 open issues, 28 open pull requests
Currently: 170 open issues, 23 open pull requests

Pending work for the RC 1?

Server - Grid
Hub reports Nodes going down https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/docker-selenium/issues/1257
TimeoutException https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9528

Language bindings

“se:cdpVersion” is missing in C# and JS
Can all bindings do CDP over Grid?
What are the features present in Selenium 4?
Do all bindings implement them?

Release process

After beta 4, we should document how each binding and the Grid are released

Selenium IDE

Who knows what the release process is? What is needed?
Who can help reviewing pull requests?
#1257 Hub reporting no available nodes after a few hours SeleniumHQ/docker-selenium | Apr 8th | Added by GitHub
#9528 java.util.concurrent.TimeoutException thrown at random netty read timeouts with RemoteWebDriver SeleniumHQ/selenium | May 28th | Added by GitHub

8:56 PM

btw, there is no hurry to start, we can also start when most folks are available, I believe this won’t be a long one

Diego Molina 9:01 PM

Just a comment from the increased number of issues… I believe users are starting to give more feedback, so that’s good

9:05 PM

I believe we can slowly jump into the first topic: Pending work for the RC 1?

9:06 PM

Regarding the Grid, I would say it is feature complete

9:07 PM

but we have a couple of bugs we are checking with @Puja Jagani

9:08 PM

I think we can sort them out during the next week (fingers crossed :slightly_smiling_face:)

Diego Molina 9:13 PM

talking about the language bindings, I think the most relevant thing for RC1 is to check feature parity

Titus Fortner 9:14 PM

@AutomatedTester did the shadow Dom work you did end up in geckodriver /Firefox yet?

9:15 PM

I know some bindings implemented the endpoints already

David Burns 9:15 PM

No, it’s nearly done

Maybe I should hand it to the Mozilla folks and maybe they could finish it off

Titus Fortner 9:15 PM

I kind of wanted to wait until I could make sure tests passed and stuff because I never trust myself :)

David Burns 9:16 PM

There is an issue with something between marionette and geckodriver but those are super hard to diagnose

Titus Fortner 9:17 PM

There were some accessibility endpoints? I’m not sure we’ve all added. And I think ruby deprecated methods that other languages implemented with JS

I’ve been meaning to do a deeper dive into the various tests, but haven’t gotten there yet. Ruby broke CDP in last beta release, we need to figure out

9:21 PM

We probably need to do a beta 4.1 just for ruby with that fix

Diego Molina 9:22 PM

Since the VNC stuff has been implemented, I have a bit of time next week to start working in an issue to document feature parity

Titus Fortner 9:23 PM

I’ll dedicate some time this month to helping with it

Probably the last topic is Release process

9:24 PM

Last week Simon recorded the Java release and shared the video so I can document it

It’d be great if the other folks who also do releases do the same, so we can document and potentially automate releases

Diego Molina 9:30 PM

I believe that was everything we had in the agenda

Titus Fortner 9:36 PM

Documentation. We got an offer from a company to help us with documentation so they can integrate it with their product which is an executable browser IDE thing

Or something. I’m not entirely certain, but sounds potentially interesting.

Diego Molina 9:37 PM

tell us more, @titusfortner :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 9:37 PM

I at least want to get a demo and see what they mean.

I don’t know more, yet. :)

Diego Molina 9:37 PM

ah ok, they reached out to you privately :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 9:38 PM

Yeah, I’ll loop you in when we set up a demo. Might not work for what we need

Diego Molina 9:39 PM

sounds good

Blog: Public Project Meeting - June 03, 2021

Thu, 03 Jun 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on June 03, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 9:01 PM

:wave: Anyone around for our public meeting? @barancev @manoj9788 @mmerrell @simonstewart @harsha509 @Puja Jagani @AutomatedTester @titusfortner @p0deje @jimevans

9:02 PM

Let me post our ongoing agenda

General project statistics

Previous meeting: 161 open issues, 25 open pull requests
Currently: 167 open issues, 28 open pull requests
Pending work for the Beta 4?

Server - Grid

Pipe VNC connectors through the WebSocket plumbing for live video
Check that the Redis/JDBC backed services actually function
Distributor follows spec when allocating new sessions

Language bindings

“se:cdpVersion” is missing in C# and JS
Can all bindings do CDP over Grid?
What are the features present in Selenium 4?
Do all bindings implement them?

Release process

After beta 4, we should document how each binding and the Grid are released

Selenium IDE

Who knows what the release process is? What is needed?
Who can help reviewing pull requests?
please feel free to add any topics you’d like to add

Todd Tarsi 9:04 PM

I have been puttering on running ide v3 inside of ide v4, and it is kinda coming along. I’ll just post a screencap of where it’s at when we get there

Simon Stewart 9:04 PM

Agenda LGTM

Diego Molina 9:05 PM

A comment on General project statistics It feels as if folks are trying betas a bit more, I see an increase of issues

Simon Stewart 9:06 PM

That’s a Good Thing.

Diego Molina 9:06 PM

Most of the Grid ones can be fixed with docs, so I can take time to do that

other ones, seem to be either bugs or people just figuring out how to use beta 3, not sure

Simon Stewart 9:06 PM

I got some informal feedback from someone who said “btw it seems a ton more stable than 3.141.59 for us on soak test”.

Diego Molina 9:06 PM

That is nice to know

Simon Stewart 9:06 PM

Are there any issues we should be prioritising?

I’ve not read them recently, but if there’s a theme, we can try and address the systemic causes

Diego Molina 9:09 PM

We also have a few PRs pending to review, some of them related to the Grid, which @Puja Jagani created, and maybe when things are less intense, you could have a look @simonstewart, please?

Simon Stewart 9:10 PM

Sure. I’ll get on that ASAP

Diego Molina 9:10 PM

ok, so Pending work for the Beta 4?

Simon Stewart 9:11 PM

Just the .Net bindings, I think New

Diego Molina 9:11 PM

Server - Grid
Pipe VNC connectors through the WebSocket plumbing for live video
Check that the Redis/JDBC backed services actually function
Distributor follows spec when allocating new sessions I think “Distributor follows spec when allocating new sessions” was done, right?

and I believe @Puja Jagani tackled “Check that the Redis/JDBC backed services actually function”, not sure

Simon Stewart 9:11 PM

I think so, just checking

Simon Stewart 9:11 PM

I think so, just checking

9:12 PM

Yeah. We follow the spec better now

Before rc1, I’ll do some more command line testing of it using curl. I bet I can still make it fail

Diego Molina 9:13 PM

I was going to start working on “Pipe VNC connectors through the WebSocket plumbing for live video” but I bumped into the StressTest not passing, which lead to a fix. I want to have this before RC1, hopefully for beta 4

Simon Stewart 9:13 PM

Hopefully the infrastructure you’ll need is already in place.

I guess you’re going to expose a se:vnc capability or similar?

Diego Molina 9:14 PM

yes, that is the idea

Simon Stewart 9:14 PM

Perfect

Which reminds me, we should make sure that both Sauce and BS know that the Selenium 4 local ends will all try connecting to se:cdp and their infra could/should/might want to handle that

Titus Fortner 9:18 PM

local ends should only try connecting to that endpoint if using a devtools feature. Might make sense to just let it error out as unknown endpoint if it isn’t supported.

Diego Molina 9:18 PM

We are working internally on that, everyone at Sauce is aware :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:18 PM

@titusfortner that’s what the java code does

@diemol that’s great news :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 9:20 PM

Ok, so Language bindings

“se:cdpVersion” is missing in C# and JS
Can all bindings do CDP over Grid?

I am not sure if @harsha509 and @AutomatedTester had time to use that in the JS bindigns

Simon Stewart 9:21 PM

If bindings are using se:cdp properly, then they should be able to do CDP over Grid.

Sri Harsha 9:22 PM

No @diemol. As discussed in last we punt it to rc1. If time permits i will look into it for sure

Simon Stewart 9:22 PM

I think the .Net bindings aren’t aware of the se:cdp capability yet

A quick grep suggests that’s true

Diego Molina 9:22 PM

thank for the update, @harsha509!

ok, so maybe we can jump to the next topic:

What are the features present in Selenium 4?
Do all bindings implement them?

I have not been able to get this list done, lack of time and also I do not know where to start to get this information

9:26 PM

from the top of my head, is:

Relative locators (Java can accept the locator, the other bindings use withTag)
New tab command
CDP (but what CDP features?)
Full page screenshot in Firefox
Print to PDF

9:26 PM

any others?

Sri Harsha 9:26 PM

JS bindings doesnt have /session/{session id}/element/{element id}/shadow endpoint implemented

9:27 PM

not sure of other language bindings

computedRole
computedLabel

Titus Fortner 9:28 PM

Do any of the drivers have shadow endpoint implemented?

Simon Stewart 9:28 PM

I’ll wire that into Java next week

Jim Evans 9:28 PM

working away at .NET to get ready for beta. :tada: 4

Simon Stewart 9:28 PM

I may wire in a fallback too

Jim Evans 9:29 PM

i want to also include the shadow endpoints, but i may not get to that.

Simon Stewart 9:29 PM

It can wait for rc1.

9:30 PM

For the record, I’m thinking of rc1 as “if we want to, we could tag this as 4.0 and be done”, so until we ship that, we don’t need all the commands in place. :+1: 1

9:30 PM

I’m seriously hoping beta4 is the last beta

Titus Fortner 9:31 PM

So, it’s not explicitly on the agenda, but relates to the languages implementing everything….

documentation.

Would be nice to have something that explains everything that is new with examples in each of the languages

9:31 PM

(as in I am willing to help not just complain about this one)

9:33 PM

but…

Do we still want to update to a different theme first?
Would it be possible to get help from a “Technical Content Strategist” or the like to help us organize things?

Diego Molina 9:33 PM

that is my idea by listing the features and seeing where they are implemented and where they need to be implemented :+1: 2

Sri Harsha 9:33 PM

I have tried my best to provide examples for all language bindings and a note on top of it like https://www.selenium.dev/documentation/en/webdriver/browser_manipulation/#create-new-window-or-new-tab-and-switch

Simon Stewart 9:34 PM

@titusfortner a human’s guide to the new features is a good idea.

Titus Fortner 9:34 PM

After spending a little time with the Sauce tech content team it has really showed me how much of a difference it makes to have someone who does this for a living organize things

I can look at something and say “this structure doesn’t make sense,” but my solution will be something that also doesn’t make sense. :smile:

Diego Molina 9:36 PM

I want to move to Docsy, a hugo theme that helps us to have website and docs in one single place

Titus Fortner 9:36 PM

and if we can reference code snippets from selenium repo tests rather than having to create/maintain them independently in our docs that would be huge

Is docsy the one I was looking at last time (whenever that was)?

Simon Stewart 9:36 PM

@diemol can the move to docsy be done at the same time as the docs themselves are updated?

Diego Molina 9:36 PM

and I have found Hugo shortcodes that can render real tests hosted in GitHub repositories, so we can run those tests in GitHub actions and provide working examples :tada: 2

Simon Stewart 9:37 PM

Oh! That’s nice!

Diego Molina 9:37 PM

I want to move the website first and leave for last the docs, but it will be hard to sync things, but it can be done

Titus Fortner 9:38 PM

I feel like if we have

A more intuitive structure of documentation
A template for adding code snippets in tabs

then it’s just a matter of finding the test code in the project for each feature

Diego Molina 9:39 PM

nro. 2, is the Hugo shortcode I found

Titus Fortner 9:39 PM

and I’d like to propose we actually look to hire someone to help us with #1.

Top notch documentation for Selenium 4 could make all the difference

Simon Stewart 9:39 PM

We can easily set up an “example” repo that people can look at

Titus Fortner 9:40 PM

@diemol yeah, I just need an example in the template we want to use, because that’s what I was missing the last time I tried to help :slightly_smiling_face:

Luis Correia 9:41 PM

sorry for intruding, the documentation so far is too “surgical”, lacking proper context. I would provide a full Java/C#/Python Class/Snipped with inline comments that would explain constructs

Titus Fortner 9:41 PM

I loaded the new template, spent like 8 hours tyring to figure out how to get tabs to work, and then gave up. :smile:

Luis Correia 9:42 PM

bonus points would go to code interacting with an example website

Diego Molina 9:42 PM

This is normally the type of thing that gets done when someone spends a few days working on it and then enabling others to work :+1: 1

9:42 PM

So hopefully I can have time for that after beta 4 is released

Titus Fortner 9:43 PM

I think if I understood Go better I might have been successful

9:43 PM

it just is very different from Docusaurus and Jekyll which are the 2 static site implementations I’ve worked with

and I like @Luis Correia’s point about more context

Diego Molina 9:43 PM

We can pair on that, I don’t know Go so much, I just know how to copy & paste properly

Titus Fortner 9:44 PM

but as someone who writes things with a lot more context, it’s also a *much more significant undertaking

9:44 PM

Watir we have the inline docs that are surgical, then “guides” on our website that try to explain things

And we have examples in each of the repos against our test server

something we might do is publish the test server on selenium.dev so anyone can run their own code against it without having to build selenium?

9:45 PM

I did that for the watir test code as well

Luis Correia 9:46 PM

yes, public test servers are a good thing

I can help testing and correct testing code (mainly for Java) against that server

I’m kinda “well versed” into Maven build cycles and can probably help the project in that respect

Titus Fortner 9:48 PM

I just copy/pasted everything to the examples directy: http://watir.com/examples

People can change url_for(“forms_with_input_elements.html”) in the specs to “http://watir.com/examples/forms_with_input_elements.html"

Diego Molina 9:48 PM

maybe we can jump into the next topic? Release process

After beta 4, we should document how each binding and the Grid are released

Titus Fortner 9:52 PM

For Ruby you need an account on rubygems. We can probably set one up a common email @selenium.dev with a secret password

9:53 PM

we can build the gem with bazel now, but the actual release requires manual intervention still

but I think we all agree that it is needed and we can do it after Se4 release

Diego Molina 9:56 PM

Something we were talking yesterday was to record the release process in a zoom call or similar and some of us who have more time, can document that process

Simon Stewart 9:58 PM

The java process isn’t too taxing

9:58 PM

The main thing is you need a Sonatype OSS account so you can publish the artifacts

Diego Molina 9:59 PM

so I believe we can focus on this topic a bit more when we feel close to beta 4 release?

Titus Fortner 10:01 PM

or RC :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 10:03 PM

We are close to the b4 release :slightly_smiling_face:

@titusfortner getting the leg-rc package working properly again is on my list

Diego Molina 10:04 PM

I think we should find a way to document releases sooner than later because I imagine we will need to iterate faster when RC1 happens

Titus Fortner 10:04 PM

I meant release candidate version vs beta 4, not the RC package, but sure :wink:

Simon Stewart 10:04 PM

@barancev and I both have the keys for java releases

Diego Molina 10:11 PM

ok, I guess the idea would be to simply record those sessions

Sri Harsha 10:11 PM

Coming to Selenium-ide, I have the production build from V3 branch.

At the time of release i can change the build version, build, zip it and pass it over to someone who has access for release

Titus Fortner 10:11 PM

:thumbsup:

Diego Molina 10:12 PM

but I think we can chat more about this when we are actually going to release beta 4?

10:13 PM

Good idea to jump into the next topic :slightly_smiling_face:

Selenium IDE

Who knows what the release process is? What is needed?
Who can help reviewing pull requests

so releasing it is as easy as uploading the zip somewhere? to the browser stores?

Todd Tarsi 10:16 PM

I can help review pull requests, but I don’t have any permissions around that stuff. Would reviewing PRs stil lhelp?

Diego Molina 10:17 PM

that would definitely help

Todd Tarsi 10:17 PM

Sounds good, I’ll take up a more active role reviewing PRs then.

Diego Molina 10:18 PM

I can help with merging if needed :slightly_smiling_face:

but we really need to figure out how to release

Todd Tarsi 10:18 PM

The release process seems like something that shouldn’t be that complicated. We build for edge, firefox, and chrome and then upload the zip files to the stores, right?

Sri Harsha 10:18 PM

Yes @diemol. Uplaoding the zip in webstore who has release access

Diego Molina 10:18 PM

I will try to ping Dave and Tomer privately

Simon Stewart 10:18 PM

Thank you @Todd Tarsi Helping to review things would be really helpful

There’s a chance I have access to the release account

Sri Harsha 10:19 PM

i asked @corevo . He said @simonstewart may have access to webstore to publish

Simon Stewart 10:19 PM

At least for Firefox, and maybe Chrome

Diego Molina 10:20 PM

sounds good, that would help a lot

Simon Stewart 10:22 PM

Will check tomorrow

Blog: Public Project Meeting - May 20, 2021

Thu, 20 May 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on May 20, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Simon Stewart 9:00 PM

@AutomatedTester, @p0deje @titusfortner, @harsha509 @Puja Jagani @barancev @jimevans @Todd Tarsi and anyone else who’s interested, come on down!

9:00 PM

Any agenda items?

Diego Molina 9:00 PM

I can paste the ongoing agenda and leave you to it :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:00 PM

Yes please!

Diego Molina 9:01 PM

Pending work for the 4th Beta?

Server - Grid
Pipe VNC connectors through the WebSocket plumbing for live video
Unify new Session Queue
Stress test the new Grid on AWS or similar with >50 simultaneous tests
Check that the Redis/JDBC backed services actually function
Distributor follows spec when allocating new sessions
More than 1 IE session per Node? https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9388

Language bindings

“se:cdpVersion” is missing in C# and JS
Can all bindings do CDP over Grid?
What are the features present in Selenium 4?
Do all bindings implement them?
Selenium IDE
Who knows what the release process is?
What is needed?
Who can help reviewing pull requests?

9388 Grid 4 doesn’t allow more than 1 session for Internet Explorer

:boom: Regression Report

We used Selenium Grid 2 and 3 to run multiple IE sessions in parallel without issues for many years. But now Selenium 4 restrict the number of IE sessions to only 1 without any way to override the restriction.

Last working Selenium version

Worked up to version: 3.141.59

Stopped working in version: 4.0.0-alpha

To Reproduce

Start the hub using java -jar selenium-server-4.0.0-beta-3.jar hub
Start the IE node using java -Dwebdriver.ie.driver=IEDriverServer-3.150.1.exe -jar selenium-server-4.0.0-beta-3.jar node –max-sessions 7 –override-max-sessions true Expected behavior A grid node that allows up to 7 tests that use IE to run in parallel. Environment OS: Windows
Browser: IE
Bro… Show more Labels C-grid https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium|SeleniumHQ/seleniumSeleniumHQ/selenium | Apr 17th | Added by GitHub

Simon Stewart 9:01 PM

Thank you!

9:01 PM

I’ll add: What do we want in RC1?

9:01 PM

Anyone want to add anything else?

Diego Molina 9:02 PM

Also

General project statistics

Previous meeting: 157 open issues, 25 open pull requests Currently: 161 open issues, 25 open pull requests

9:02 PM

(so, I cannot run the meeting, but I am around :slightly_smiling_face:)

Simon Stewart 9:02 PM

It’s much appreciated. Thank you, @diemol

9:03 PM

I’m guessing silence means that there’s nothing else to add?

In that case: Pending work for beta 4

Simon Stewart 9:04 PM

I saw that @Puja Jagani has got tracing working again, which I’d love to see in b4.

Puja Jagani

Will be landed tomorrow!

Simon Stewart

Woohoo!

Simon Stewart

Thank you :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:04 PM

And @diemol posted a video of the Grid scaling up to 50 clients

9:04 PM

I’ve done some perf work to get better utilisation

9:05 PM

And we’ve unified the session queue too

9:05 PM

That is, I think Grid is good to go for b4 once the tracing work is landed

9:05 PM

Anyone (@harsha509 @AutomatedTester) know about se:cdpVersion in the JS bindings?

David Burns 9:07 PM

I’ve not done it

Simon Stewart 9:07 PM

(I see that @harsha509 is typing….)

Sri Harsha 9:07 PM

cdp version check is not implememted on js.

Simon Stewart 9:07 PM

OK. Do we need it for beta 4, or should we punt it to rc1?

David Burns 9:08 PM

We can punt it

Simon Stewart 9:08 PM

Great. Let’s punt it to rc 1

David Burns 9:08 PM

No one has noticed how it works and no bug reports so…

Simon Stewart 9:08 PM

What about CDP over the Grid?

If you’re using se:cdp for the websocket endpoint, it’ll work

9:09 PM

(@titusfortner and @p0deje I’m curious about the ruby bindings and CDP-over-Grid too)

David Burns 9:09 PM

That is there already

Titus Fortner 9:11 PM

yeah, for Remote, Ruby gets the version from se:cdpVersion

9:12 PM

We run the tests for both local and via the Grid, and everything is passing

Simon Stewart 9:12 PM

Do the Ruby bindings use se:cdpVersion too?

I guess you lean into the typing less than Java and .Net, so maybe it doesn’t matter so much

Titus Fortner 9:13 PM

https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/blob/411b883645023d1e1a629a3197d3552253b93f2f/rb/lib/selenium/webdriver/remote/driver.rb#L54 driver.rb

capabilities[‘se:cdpVersion’].split(’.’).first

https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium|SeleniumHQ/seleniumSeleniumHQ/selenium | Added by GitHub

Simon Stewart 9:13 PM

Perfect :slightly_smiling_face:

9:14 PM

waits for @titusfortner to type

Titus Fortner 9:14 PM

no need, I’m not saying anything useful

9:14 PM

but Ruby & devtools things I think we’re good

Simon Stewart 9:15 PM

Great. Moving on, then!

9:15 PM

I get the feeling that if anyone had the time and energy, @jimevans would appreciate a hand with the .Net bindings

9:16 PM

I know that last status meeting, he mentioned that there were some features he wanted in there before beta4

David Burns 9:17 PM

@Puja Jagani has done some .Net stuff. If Jim tells us what needs doing we can help

Simon Stewart 9:18 PM

I think it’s probably CDP-over-Grid, and maybe the CDP version stuff

9:18 PM

But, obviously, @jimevans knows waaaay more than I do about that

David Burns 9:18 PM

I need to do the multiple options handling to capabilities work in the python code

9:19 PM

If I had deprecated some of the code in 3.14 it would be Waaaaaaay easier

Simon Stewart 9:20 PM

We can have a discussion about what you’re thinking of breaking later

9:20 PM

It may just be that we do the simple thing, though

As far as I’m concerned, then, the thing we’re waiting for is @jimevans to give us the green light for the .Net stuff being ready for beta4

Titus Fortner 9:21 PM

I did just notice that Ruby hasn’t implemented Full Page screenshot support for Firefox, yet; I’ll get that added today.

And on that vein, I need to create some examples of browser specific features being used with Remote drivers in each language, because I know not everything is working in every binding, yet

Simon Stewart 9:21 PM

What do other people think?

David Burns 9:21 PM

Nothing will break promise

Simon Stewart 9:21 PM

@titusfortner I think we can set “feature parity between bindings” as an rc1 goal

Titus Fortner 9:21 PM

yup, makes sense

9:22 PM

I"ll get the Firefox screenshot thing in before beta4

Simon Stewart 9:22 PM

As long as the broad features are there in beta4 (notably, the CDP-related infrastructure, if not the nicer APIs built on top)

Titus Fortner 9:22 PM

Very excited about how close we are :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:22 PM

Which neatly brings us on to What do we want in RC1?

Titus Fortner 9:23 PM

ensure feature parity :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:23 PM

Feature parity between languages
Updated CDP versions for current browsers
More Grid stress testing

Titus Fortner 9:23 PM

or at least document it

Simon Stewart 9:23 PM

Documentation :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 9:23 PM

while we’re here, the JUnit 5 dev doesn’t have any ideas for how to fix the issue:

https://github.com/junit-team/junit5/issues/2273#issuecomment-840516940

Comment on #2273 Parallelism value ignored for the fixed strategy

I’m all ears if anyone has a proposal how to resolve this. The only thing I’ve come up with would be to wrap the execution of each test in another, non-ForkJoinPool thread but that would double the number of required threads and have performance implications. https://github.com/junit-team/junit5|junit-team/junit5junit-team/junit5 | May 13th | Added by GitHub

9:24 PM

it’s definitely a JUnit thing, but it’s going to affect our users :disappointed: :disappointed:

Simon Stewart 9:24 PM

Why they don’t just maintain an AtomicInteger of the number of running threads is beyond me

Titus Fortner 9:25 PM

Can you suggest that?

9:25 PM

I am so far out of my depth with threading that I will get in the way more than help

Simon Stewart 9:25 PM

We can get this sorted :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 9:26 PM

:thumbsup:

Simon Stewart 9:26 PM

Does anyone have anything else that they want to see in rc1?

9:26 PM

Or, to rephrase, if we ship rc1 and nothing major blows up, what would stop us making the release after that 4.0?

9:28 PM

(I’m going to take silence here to mean that everyone is really busy right now)

Titus Fortner 9:29 PM

Your list looks good to me…

Simon Stewart 9:30 PM

OK.

9:31 PM

So, let’s move on to Selenium IDE

I think that there’s a small core of us who could release the IDE

9:32 PM

But @corevo and DaveH would know the process best

9:33 PM

To recap:

Selenium IDE
Who knows what the release process is?
What is needed?
Who can help reviewing pull requests?

Todd Tarsi 9:33 PM

@simonstewart - I would love to help in any capacity that I can, including reviewing PRs.

Simon Stewart 9:34 PM

That’s great news :slightly_smiling_face:

9:34 PM

Thank you

9:34 PM

Again, it feels like we’re not going to make much progress today on this.

Titus Fortner 9:35 PM PM

I think we need to hear back from former owners to make progress on it

Simon Stewart 9:35 PM

Can I suggest that we set up a call or email chain with @corevo, DaveH, @harsha509 and whoever else is interested to move that forwards?

Titus Fortner 9:35 PM

can we reach out to them not-on-slack since they don’t seem to be paying attention here?

yes, that :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:35 PM

nods

@harsha509, would you be okay arranging that?

If we can get you email addresses….

Sri Harsha 9:36 PM

I can take inputs from @corevo on how to release and document it.

9:37 PM

Sure @simonstewart

Simon Stewart 9:37 PM

Brilliant. Thank you. I’ll be happy to help move things along if I can

Sri Harsha 9:37 PM

:bow:

Simon Stewart 9:37 PM

@Todd Tarsi I bet it’d be interesting to hear how the electron work was going

Todd Tarsi 9:38 PM

@simonstewart - It will be better with a PR as a point of discussion, so I’ll put one out later tonight.

Simon Stewart 9:38 PM

Oh yeah. Definitely a PR discussion :slightly_smiling_face:

9:39 PM

Alright then, folks. I think we’ve romped through the agenda.

9:39 PM

Is there anything else people would like to talk about?

Titus Fortner 9:39 PM

What is the current status of BiDi?

Luis Correia 9:40 PM

Documentation :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 9:40 PM

I think we closed the issue that was listing what we were going to implement, presumably because we’ve implemented the things we deemed essential

Simon Stewart 9:41 PM

Status of Bidi? The w3c spec, or the use cases we planned to support?

Titus Fortner 9:41 PM

the latter

and the former to the extent that it might be what is driving the latter?

Simon Stewart 9:41 PM

@Luis Correia Acknowledged. We’ll talk about docs after the bidi stuff

The w3c spec won’t be finished before we ship 4.0, so let’s set that aside

Titus Fortner 9:42 PM

oh yes, I waited until after we were done talking about betas and RCs to bring this up :slightly_smiling_face:

this is future roadmap things

Simon Stewart 9:42 PM

So, the use cases from the issue were:

Listen for DOM events
Log what’s going on in the browser including console and JS errors
Fail fast on any JS error
Intercept network requests allowing to mock backend requests
Record traffic (Alex: Allow replaying it?)
Authenticate on secure pages
Bootstrap scripts (for example, execute JavaScript snippet on every page load)

9:43 PM

Recording traffic can be done by the same code that does network interception

I think bootstrap scripts are probably the most poorly supported thing right now

9:44 PM

Technically, Java has code for it, but I have zero confidence it’s robust. Or, indeed, that I actually landed it

The w3c spec started with a discussion of use cases too, and there’s a lot of overlap (surprise!)

9:45 PM

I’d love to get script pinning using CDP in place. That’ll exercise bootstrap scripts sufficiently

Titus Fortner 9:46 PM

So maybe I need to better understand how the spec and selenium code are supporting each other. Do we need to make sure the features we are adding are documented in the spec?

(i.e. is one driving the other, or is this like before where geckodriver & w3c drove each other)

Simon Stewart 9:47 PM

The spec is currently putting in place a lot of the groundwork to start doing useful things, so it’s not covering the use cases yet

9:48 PM

I suspect that Selenium 4 utilisation will help steer the spec as we find out the subset of the CDP that’s actually useful for testing and automation

Titus Fortner 9:48 PM

perfect, thanks

Simon Stewart 9:48 PM

It’s something of a chicken-and-egg problem right now.

9:49 PM

Once we ship 4, I’m planning to switch my focus to the spec

Titus Fortner 9:49 PM

always is with specs, right? :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:49 PM

Always :slightly_smiling_face:

We have 10 minutes left! Shall we move on to Documentation?

Titus Fortner 9:49 PM

@diemol are we moving / have we moved to a different theme?

for docs

Simon Stewart 9:49 PM

@Luis Correia could you please expand on what you meant?

Luis Correia 9:50 PM

about single port grid or documentation?

Simon Stewart 9:51 PM

Documentation, please

Luis Correia 9:52 PM

ok, it is my understanding that current docs are too surgical, explaining one thing but maybe not with full context Specifically in the grid 4 docs

Simon Stewart 9:52 PM

How would you like that to change?

Luis Correia 9:53 PM

in the website there isn’t a section with all available options and switches, one has to delve into code

9:53 PM

note: it’s not a blocker for release but rather a nice to have feature

9:55 PM

this is a good starting link

https://www.selenium.dev/documentation/en/grid/grid_4/

selenium.dev

Grid 4 :: Documentation for Selenium Documentation for Selenium

Simon Stewart 9:55 PM

OK, so a better description than you get from selenium -h?

Titus Fortner 9:55 PM

https://www.selenium.dev/documentation/en/grid/grid_4/configuring_components/config_help/

selenium.dev

Config help :: Documentation for Selenium

Documentation for Selenium

Luis Correia 9:55 PM

I would be happy with that on a webpage

Simon Stewart 9:56 PM

OK. Would you please leave a comment on https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/8165?

8165 Update user docs with new Selenium 4 features :rocket: Feature Proposal Selenium 4 brings a set of all-new features and https://www.selenium.dev/documentation/en/ needs to be updated to contain the related docs for them. Motivation

It’d be nice to have the following new features covered in the docs: • Relative locators • CDP integration • New Grid 4.0 Example … Labels C-docs, Selenium-4-Beta Comments 2 https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium|SeleniumHQ/seleniumSeleniumHQ/selenium | Apr 7th, 2020 | Added by GitHub

Titus Fortner 9:56 PM

looks like the page I linked there shows the commands but not the output?

Luis Correia 9:56 PM

@titusfortner or even why, that’s proper context

9:57 PM

i will @simonstewart

Titus Fortner 9:57 PM

providing context for it would definitely be useful

Simon Stewart 9:57 PM

Much appreciated. That’s the tracking issue for improving the docs, so adding comments there will be helpful

Titus Fortner 9:58 PM

Or you can PR the changes you think would provide the context; docs are all in a public repo.

I’m struggling a bit with Sauce documentation right now. I’m good at making sure the info is “correct,” but finding I’m not so great on explaining why it matters to people, and that part is important

Simon Stewart 9:59 PM

@titusfortner I guess you’ve seen https://developers.google.com/tech-writing?

Titus Fortner 9:59 PM

It’s like I have “presentation” mode and “documentation” mode and I can’t get them to work together :smile:

Simon Stewart 9:59 PM

Ah yeah. It’s hard to get the narrative right

Titus Fortner 10:00 PM

well, it also helps to have people at Sauce whose actual career is organizing info so people can understand it

10:00

I hadn’t seen the tech-writing page, that looks interesting

Simon Stewart 10:01 PM

Shall we wrap up? I think we covered most of the things we needed to

10:02 PM

The major decision was to wait for @jimevans to give us the green light for shipping beta 4.

I’m totally fine waiting as long as necessary for that, but I also heard @AutomatedTester suggest that maybe @Puja Jagani could help with that

Titus Fortner 10:06 PM

sounds great, thanks @simonstewart!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - May 06, 2021

Thu, 06 May 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on May 06, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Simon Stewart 9:01 PM

Alright then. It’s time

9:02

@AutomatedTester, @titusfortner @p0deje, @jimevans, @harsha509, @barancev, @Puja Jagani, and @diemol (plus anyone else who’s interested)

Let’s get the show on the road

9:02 PM

I think we can wait for @diemol to be back for the stats for the past couple of weeks

Any agenda items?

9:03 PM

Stats
What do we want in Beta 4?
When do we ship Beta 4?

Diego Molina 9:03 PM

Here, quick meeting with my manager done

David Burns 9:04 PM

Managers are the worst…

Simon Stewart 9:04 PM

hands over meeting reigns to @diemol

Diego Molina 9:04 PM

Stats from previous meeting:

157 open issues,
25 open pull requests
Current: 163 open issues, 30 open pull requests

Data taken from this link[https://www.diemol.com/github-repo-stats/seleniumhq_selenium/index.html]

David Burns 9:05 PM

A lot of those are from @Puja Jagani

9:05 PM

she has been busy

Simon Stewart 9:06 PM

She’s been rocking it

Diego Molina 9:06 PM

the issues or the PRs?

9:07

Right, work that we want for the next beta (4)

(I could not contribute that much during the last two weeks :confused:)

9:08 PM

These are items from the last meeting:

Pipe VNC connectors through the WebSocket plumbing for live video
Investigate: Grid gets stuck when screenshot is taken in a terminated session
Investigate: Grid gets stuck when the browser driver process cannot be killed
Investigate: Router request timeouts when forwarding command to Node
Unify new Session Queue
Stress test the new Grid on AWS or similar with >50 simultaneous tests
Check that the Redis/JDBC backed services actually function
More than 1 IE session per Node? https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9388

Maybe only this one got done? “Unify new Session Queue”

Simon Stewart 9:08 PM

I’d like to add:

Distributor follows spec when allocating new sessions

David Burns 9:08 PM

Do we have issues/docs on the investigate stuff?

Simon Stewart 9:08 PM

Yeah. We unified the new session queue

9:09 PM

I’ve a PR in the works for the “follow the spec” bit

David Burns 9:09 PM

for the last item about IE… we can allow that to happen but it seems like a major footgun

Diego Molina 9:10 PM

There are issues for the investigation items, and maybe there is a PR from @Puja Jagani solving the “browser driver process cannot be killed” one

I will double check that all items have a GitHub issue, and if not, I will create one

David Burns 9:12 PM

thank you

Diego Molina 9:14 PM

For language bindings we had this:

Language bindings

“se:cdpVersion” is missing in C#, Java and JS
Can all bindings do CDP over Grid
Document features and double check all bindings implement all features

Saksham Gupta 9:14 PM

Hello all, been a year since I started my internship. Thought I’ll drop by to say hi.

Simon Stewart 9:15 PM

Java should be doing se:cdpVersion now

David Burns 9:15 PM

@harsha509 do you need a hand with the cdpVersion stuff for JS?

Simon Stewart 9:16 PM

I think we need to review what’s in the python bindings that’s not elsewhere: my impression is that there’s been a few things added

David Burns 9:17 PM

@simonstewart only 1 thing which is mobile options

Simon Stewart 9:17 PM

Sri Harsha 9:17 PM

Yes @AutomatedTester, i have been busy with paid work, didnt got a chance to look into it

Diego Molina 9:17 PM

what are mobile options?

David Burns 9:17 PM

@diemol the ability to set android* config better

you could do it before but I made it a little nicer after a request from whimboo

9:18 PM

I actually want to change it to support iOS better

Diego Molina 9:18 PM

Nice!

David Burns 9:19 PM

but it means you can create a normal chrome/firefox options and pass it through to the driver to connect to said browser on android :+1: 1

9:20 PM

you could before if you knew the magic for it

Diego Molina 9:20 PM

Something else we need to figure out is how to release the IDE, given that @Todd Tarsi is helping us and contributing to it

9:20 PM

does anyone know about it?

Simon Stewart 9:20 PM

Who did the last release? @corevo, I thought

9:20 PM

David Burns 9:21 PM

I think it was him. I will email him and Dave for guidance here

Diego Molina 9:21 PM

great, thank you

and I have one last thing from my side

I have spoken to @Puja Jagani and asked her if she is interested in becoming a committer Therefore, I have created this PR https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/seleniumhq.github.io/pull/679 Folks, please go an check it out

I think she has done so much great work and without her we would not have moved at the speed we are currently moving :slightly_smiling_face:

Puja Jagani

Thank you David, Diego and Simon for the constant support and help :relaxed: Very happy working with the Selenium TLC folks!

Simon Stewart 9:25 PM

I’m onboard with this

Diego Molina 9:25 PM

(there is probably a shorter way to say what I said, but my English is no bueno sometimes)

David Burns 9:26 PM

+1 but I am biased :smile:

Diego Molina 9:26 PM

We simply need PR approvals :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 9:27 PM

Sorry, I’m showing up late. :slightly_smiling_face:

Did we get the blockers for beta 4?

Have a couple bug fixes that would be nice to get released

Simon Stewart 9:27 PM

@diemol’s in charge here

Diego Molina 9:28 PM

No @titusfortner, sorry. I think we need to improve with PR reviews in the next days so we can get closer to beta 4

9:28 PM

I believe you are talking about the JUnit issue?

Sri Harsha 9:29 PM

i will update few things in ide stuff, electron version bump and updating rules_nodejs

Titus Fortner 9:29 PM

No, that’s a different issue :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 9:30 PM

Which issues did you have in time?

9:30 PM

in mind*

Titus Fortner 9:32 PM

some fixes in Ruby code

9:32 PM

just wanted to get stuff out there sooner if that’s an option

Simon Stewart 9:33 PM

We’ve yet to agree when we want to ship beta4, so there’s probably time

9:34 PM

Unless you want the fixes to be blockers

Titus Fortner 9:35 PM

I mean, Alex changed something that was blocking someone and I’m wondering when we can get it released to him :smile:

Simon Stewart 9:36 PM

Ah! So you want the release sooner :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 9:36 PM

9:36 PM

apparently there is a project that refuses to look at firstMatch values

Sri Harsha 9:36 PM

For JS i want to:

Implement “se:cdpVersion”
API documentation for beta 4

Simon Stewart 9:37 PM

@titusfortner I have no idea how a project not following the spec is a reason for us to ship sooner, but I assume there’s context I’m missing….

David Burns 9:37 PM

is this appium?

Titus Fortner 9:40 PM

A Watir user is using aerokube/ggr

Ruby code defaults to F/M, but the project doesn’t accept it (https://github.com/aerokube/ggr/issues/314)

He asked the devs and their private reply: Ggr does not support “sophisticated” selenium “match” rules and we do not plan to implement that, because it is ambiguous

So Ruby changed default implementation to be A/M since it *shouldn’t matter but apparently does

just trying to help the user

Simon Stewart 9:41 PM

It’s the exact opposite of ambiguous

Titus Fortner 9:41 PM

oh, I know

9:41 PM

if this had been a public response i’d have been all over it

Simon Stewart 9:41 PM

WE should probably have a chat with the Aerokube folks

9:42 PM

Because Se4 will break them a lot

Titus Fortner 9:42 PM

The suggestion I got is either to try their new product: aerokube.com/moon or do not use ggr and go with selenium.

Simon Stewart 9:43 PM

So moon supports the w3c payload but not ggr?

Titus Fortner 9:44 PM

that’s what it sounds like

David Burns 9:44 PM

Aerokube… the group that bad mouths selenium… that aerokube?

Titus Fortner 9:44 PM

I don’t know what ggr vs moon is, didn’t get too deep into it

Simon Stewart 9:45 PM

Moon is their paid-for product.

Titus Fortner 9:45 PM

ah of course it is

you want fancy, you pay the money!

s/fancy/sophisticated

Simon Stewart 9:45 PM

A perfectly valid business model

David Burns 9:45 PM

In which they they tell everyone that selenium grid is useless

9:46 PM

I’m happy to help those that don’t bad mouth us

Difference of opinion is also fine

9:47 PM

But… *channels his inner @jimevans *

Titus Fortner 9:47 PM

I don’t remember off hand which bindings default to A/M and which to F/M

9:47 PM

I was going to run some tests

Diego Molina 9:50 PM

I think we should not hurry for a project that does not support standards

Titus Fortner 9:51 PM

I don’t care about them

9:51 PM

I care about a user who needs to change because of them

Diego Molina 9:51 PM

Anyway, I think those were all the topics we had :slightly_smiling_face:

Blog: Public Project Meeting - April 22, 2021

Thu, 22 Apr 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on April 22, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 9:02 PM

pinging @simonstewart @AutomatedTester @harsha509 @Puja Jagani @jimevans @barancev @manoj9788 @mmerrell @titusfortner @p0deje

Simon Stewart 9:02 PM

I’m going to be at SauceCon

9:02 PM

Things I want for beta 4:

Diego Molina 9:02 PM

and whoever else is around :slightly_smiling_face:

9:03 PM

General project statistics

Previous meeting: 163 open issues, 24 open pull requests
Currently: 157 open issues, 25 open pull requests

Simon Stewart 9:03 PM

Things I want for beta 4:

Refresh the NewSessionQueue
Stress test the new Grid on AWS or similar with >50 simultaneous tests
Check that the Redis/JDBC backed services actually function

Diego Molina 9:06 PM

Next topic:

Pending work for the 4th Beta?
Server - Grid
Pipe VNC connectors through the WebSocket plumbing for live video
Investigate: Grid gets stuck when screenshot is taken in a terminated session
Investigate: Grid gets stuck when the browser driver process cannot be killed
Investigate: Router request timeouts when forwarding command to Node
Unify new Session Queue
Stress test the new Grid on AWS or similar with >50 simultaneous tests
Check that the Redis/JDBC backed services actually function
More than 1 IE session per Node? https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9388

Language bindings

“se:cdpVersion” is missing in C#, Java and JS
Can all bindings do CDP over Grid?
What are the features present in Selenium 4?
Do all bindings implement them?

Simon Stewart 9:06 PM

The “unify new session queue” is mostly done, I think

9:07 pm

(Famous last words)

Diego Molina 9:07 PM

That is the PR you sent, which we will work with @Puja Jagani, I believe

Luke Hill 9:07 PM

Someone (In fact a couple), were asking me about the alphas / betas. And they were asking more along the lines of are we expecting a whole host of them like we had for v3.

9:08 PM

I gave them the whole spiel - We don’t do release timelines e.t.c. But figured I’d ask here if anyone has a finger in air idea.

Diego Molina 9:08 PM

For the Grid work, I am taking the items related to “investigate”

9:09 PM

But I wanted to ask folks here, what do you think about “More than 1 IE session per Node? https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9388”

Titus Fortner 9:10 PM

@luke tell them it doesn’t matter and if they are only using the bindings they should already have updated. The only stuff really being worked on at this point is grid functionality and adding in the various new features from w3c spec, etc There is no technological advantage to sticking with 3.x at this point

Luke Hill 9:10 PM

That went against all advice and articles published that explicitly stated “Do not use more than 1 IE session per node” @diemol

David Burns 9:10 PM

re: se:cdpVersion, it’s easy to add but I noticed we never use the versions, we seem to use the latest one

Diego Molina 9:10 PM

Some people are complaining they cannot run more than one test per Node, which we recommend against Because they have been able to do it. The code change is small, and I believe we should let them, with the caveat of “you are on your own here”

Luke Hill 9:11 PM

Do we know when/where this restriction came in? With an accompanying PR?

Diego Molina 9:11 PM

IE restriction? Since the moment zero Grid 4 was built

Simon Stewart 9:12 PM

@AutomatedTester the java bindings should be using the version

David Burns 9:12 PM

@simonstewart sorry, meant JS

JS bindings only use latest…

David Burns 9:12 PM

@simonstewart sorry, meant JS

9:13 PM

JS bindings only use latest…

Diego Molina 9:14 PM

@AutomatedTester I believe it has not been implemented in C# and JS (I need to double check Java)

David Burns 9:14 PM

JS doesn’t need it… yet without a bit of rearchitecting

I, or @Puja Jagani since she has been dabbling in .NET, can do the c# ones

or @jimevans obvs

Diego Molina 9:15 PM

I believe the idea is to use the “right” CDP version depending on the browser version, so it’d be nice if JS has it

David Burns 9:16 PM

maybe @harsha509 has time to look into it

Sri Harsha 9:17 PM

it requires rewriting the CDP in JS. i will look into it then.

Diego Molina 9:17 PM

that’d be amazing

cool, so I believe we need to work a bit on the pending items and see where we are in two weeks :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 9:18 PM

From a bugs standpoint, #9359 is an absolute blocker for Sauce users to move to Selenium 4, but @Puja Jagani is helping confirm it.

Would be nice to at least know what is going on before next release

Diego Molina 9:20 PM

I think we have enough time to figure that one out

Simon Stewart 9:20 PM

The reproducible test case is helpful

Titus Fortner 9:20 PM

yeah, should have done that from the start

Diego Molina 9:20 PM

I wonder if someone asked @titusfortner for a reproducible test case :smile:

Titus Fortner 9:21 PM

tbf I did put exactly what needed to go into the POM

9:21 PM

I just didn’t create a whole project that can be cloned to see the issue

Diego Molina 9:21 PM

anyway, we could move to the last topic for today, the IDE

9:21 PM

Selenium IDE

Who knows what the release process is?
What is needed?
Who can help reviewing pull requests?

Sri Harsha 9:22 PM

By beta 4, i will be resolving JS api docs too. May be i can pass it to @diemol for review and upload

Diego Molina 9:22 PM

What is needed for a release*

Diego Molina 9:23 PM

@Todd Tarsi is here and they want to contribute, so it would be nice to give them a hand

David Burns 9:23 PM

if @corevo or @tourdedave have documented the release process I think I have some of the keys to do it

Diego Molina 9:23 PM

I can check if it is documented, else reach out to them

Todd Tarsi 9:23 PM

Hi all, yep if I can help in any way, please let me. I’ve been doing selenium ide stuff since it was UI with zanarkand (is that the right name?) back in the day

Diego Molina 9:24 PM

We need the keys for the 3 stores, right? Edge, Chrome and Firefox

9:25 PM

we should also update the docs to mention it is available in Edge

Todd Tarsi 9:27 PM

I can PR simple docs changes if we want.

Diego Molina 9:27 PM

cool

so we will check what is needed to properly test and release the IDE, and we will post here in #selenium-tlc

thanks for showing interest, @Todd Tarsi

ok, I think that is all for today, right?

does anyone have an extra topic?

seems not, thank you everyone!

(and thanks @harsha509 for publishing the notes to our blog :slightly_smiling_face:)

Blog: Public Project Meeting - April 08, 2021

Thu, 08 Apr 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on April 08, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 8:59 PM

Ok, proposed agenda is:

General project statistics
Stuff implemented/fixed in the last two weeks
Pending work that needs to be done for the third Beta?
PRs that need to be reviewed

please feel free to add any other topics

pinging @titusfortner @manoj9788 @mmerrell @simonstewart @barancev @Puja Jagani @AutomatedTester @harsha509 @jimevans

Alright, let’s start with today’s public meeting :slightly_smiling_face:

9:02 PM

General project statistics

Previous meeting: 178 open issues, 23 open PRs
Current: 163, 24 PRs

Marcus Merrell 9:03 PM

no news to report from me–still working on the CoC with Karen, and working on either booking the Chicago venue for a 2022 conference, or getting our $40,000 back

Diego Molina 9:04 PM

thanks for sharing @mmerrell

Simon Stewart 9:04 PM

Presumably we’re looking at late 2022 for the in-person conference?

Diego Molina 9:05 PM

I hope so

are there any thoughts around a virtual conference this year?

Simon Stewart 9:06 PM

I’m lukewarm about virtual conferences. It’s hard to sit and watch YouTube videos all day

Diego Molina 9:06 PM

me too, but as a project we should consider that alternative

David Burns 9:06 PM

having just done one for work there is a “we’ve had enough” vibe going

9:07 PM

it was a success but I don’t think we could have done it later this year

Simon Stewart 9:07 PM

I’d love to do some short videos on topics, though

Things like relative locators, shadow DOM, CDP, etc

And we can do a “q&a” one with committers and a host

We should ask folks if they’d like to do something, and then maybe post one or two a month?

Diego Molina 9:08 PM right, a mini conference would be nice

Simon Stewart 9:08 PM

Provided we pay for someone to help make the videos and edit them

Titus Fortner 9:08 PM

less “talks” and more “video tutorials with Q&A?” :)

Diego Molina 9:08 PM

perhaps one day of workshops and one day of short talks

Simon Stewart 9:09 PM

Workshops are a really good thing to do

David Burns 9:09 PM

I would like to think on it more before committing either way

Simon Stewart 9:09 PM

Not even sure about “one day of short talks”. Just posting things regularly on the YT channel

Titus Fortner 9:09 PM

I really like it when there is a “time” that a video is shown, and the author can chat with people about it in whatever room, and then answer questions at the end

9:10 PM

then everything can be posted in whatever channel for people to watch

Simon Stewart 9:10 PM

I can see that

Diego Molina 9:10 PM

well, there we have a whole topic to think about :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:10 PM

Ha! :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 9:10 PM

but I do like the idea of a series of shorts on different pertinent selenium topics

9:11 PM

less “why testing is like a toaster oven” and more practical on how to get the most out of new Selenium 4, etc :-D

Simon Stewart 9:11 PM

Right

Diego Molina 9:12 PM

ok, I am a bit short of time today, so I suggest to go back to the agenda and if there is time, we can circle back to ideas about a “conference”

Titus Fortner 9:12 PM

:thumbsup:

Diego Molina 9:12 PM

Next topic:

Stuff implemented/fixed in the last two weeks

I have a short list of things I know they were done, so I will paste it here

CDP url for Firefox
Platform matching but when platform is Windows
noVNC added to docker-selenium

Simon Stewart 9:12 PM

Been quiet from me, but I have landed the bits to plumb through se:cdpVersion and have started on a unified New Session Queue

Diego Molina 9:13 PM

(there was a bug when matching Windows as a platform)

9:14 PM

yeah, if you try the Grid right now, CDP for Firefox should work also (but there are some CI tests failing for Firefox)

I also added noVNC to the docker containers, that bring us closer to have the live view in the Grid UI

Simon Stewart 9:15 PM

That’s very cool

Diego Molina 9:15 PM

Ok, so now having said what we have done during the last two weeks, we can now talk about what is left for beta 3:

Pending work that needs to be done for the third Beta?

I will paste the things that come from the previous meeting, but please add/remove as you wish

Simon Stewart 9:16 PM

Thank you

Diego Molina 9:16 PM

Server changes:

Enable retries of commands where necessary using failsafe
Pipe VNC connectors through the websocket plumbing for live video
Investigate: Grid gets stuck when screenshot is taken in a terminated session
Investigate: Router request timeouts when forwarding command to Node

Things left in Java, Python, JS, Ruby, C#?

“se:cdpVersion”?
Can all bindings do CDP over Grid?

Marcus Merrell 9:16 PM

(just to close out the 2022 conference idea–yes, Fall of 2022 in Chicago)

Simon Stewart 9:16 PM

Adding: unify the new session queue

Diego Molina 9:18 PM

We had this comment from the last meeting:

Here’s the plan, then. We’ll ship beta3 when two of these conditions are met:

The .net bindings support CDP over Grid
We send se:cdpVersion in Capabilities and that’s also handled by Grid

is this still valid? what do you all think?

Simon Stewart 9:18 PM

Time has elapsed. I’m not convinced we’re using se:cdpVersion properly on the local end yet

Titus Fortner 9:19 PM

looks like Java is the only one using it

Simon Stewart 9:19 PM

@jimevans can tell us whether the .Net bindings work

David Burns 9:19 PM

I will look at the Python/JS stuff for that tomorrow

Titus Fortner 9:20 PM

There are several Ruby bugs that we fixed, so I’m for releasing beta 3 even without cdpversion implemented

9:21 PM

I would like to get v90 & v91 devtools support added

Diego Molina 9:21 PM

Grid is now returning se:cdpVersion properly, and the Java bindings (when running locally) are also returning it properly

Titus Fortner 9:21 PM

or at least v90

David Burns 9:21 PM

that seems simple then…

Diego Molina 9:21 PM

but I wonder if the other bindings also create and manage se:cdpVersion when running locally (not over Grid)

Titus Fortner 9:22 PM

wait is Firefox using CDP 85 or 86?

Simon Stewart 9:22 PM

@titusfortner I can help you land the CDP v90 stuff

Diego Molina 9:22 PM

Titus Fortner 9:23 PM

I think I followed the guid and have the pdl files for the latest v90

Simon Stewart 9:23 PM

@diemol I’m not sure the java bindings use se:cdpVersion properly

David Burns 9:23 PM

firefox is 85 unless they changed it

Titus Fortner 9:23 PM

Well, if we aren’t hard coding it to 85, then I need to figure out how we want to approach that going forward :slightly_smiling_face:

I just see that trunk has FirefoxDriver set to use 86

(in Java)

which I didn’t think was correct

David Burns 9:24 PM

Java is wrong then

Simon Stewart 9:24 PM

Easy fix

David Burns 9:24 PM

9:24

:stuck_out_tongue:

Diego Molina 9:25 PM

Seems we need to create a GitHub issue to track that

I’ll do that now

Simon Stewart 9:26 PM

Thanks

Jim Evans 9:27 PM

.NET still doesn’t proxy CDP across RemoteWebDriver yet.

is jumping through corporate IT/security/legal hoops right now.

Titus Fortner 9:29 PM

that sounds joyful

Diego Molina 9:30 PM

ok, created this to track it https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9365

please feel free to add more details

(if needed)

9:32 PM

So, IMO, we should have se:cdpVersion working and all bindings doing CDP over Grid before beta 3, right?

what do you think?

Simon Stewart 9:32 PM

I’m letting @jimevans call it

Jim Evans 9:33 PM

let’s not hold up beta3 for that. if i get to it before then, fine, but i’m swamped right now.

Titus Fortner 9:33 PM

I definitely don’t think we need cdpVersion

9:34 PM

doing CDP over grid doesn’t require that per se

Diego Molina 9:34 PM

no, it does not, they are two separate things

Titus Fortner 9:34 PM

Does Python & JS have CDP over grid working?

Simon Stewart 9:34 PM

I’d like to get the java bindings consuming se:cdpVersion properly.

Titus Fortner 9:35 PM

can we save that for beta4?

David Burns 9:35 PM

replied to a thread: Does Python & JS have CDP over grid working?

It should do

Diego Molina 9:35 PM

I know it would be ideal to get a beta 3 soon, but if we need to wait to have all bindings working with CDP, I am ok with that

Titus Fortner 9:35 PM

I generally don’t like putting off a release until Java gets something working, because that just means we wait for everyone else to implement it or Java is off from the rest of us. :smile:

Diego Molina 9:36 PM

I have seen issues asking “can we have in JS what it is already done in Java”, and similar

Titus Fortner 9:36 PM

Like I said, I have several bug fixes that would be nice to get into people’s hands sooner

I guess I can always do a beta 2.1 for ruby, but…

Simon Stewart 9:36 PM

Let’s aim for next Tuesday for beta 3

Diego Molina 9:37 PM

I am also ok with that

but I don’t want to reach RC without some degree of feature parity between bindings

even if it takes longer

Jim Evans 9:38 PM

i get my second vaccine dose on tuesday, so it’ll be in the afternoon

9:38 PM

(US eastern time)

Titus Fortner 9:38 PM

woo hoo!

Diego Molina 9:38 PM

oh, that’s amazing!

Simon Stewart 9:38 PM

RC should have feature parity

I’d like that one out for a few days, and then we ship 4.0.0

Titus Fortner 9:39 PM

oh, while we’re here, I think Java & .NET are the only ones who have implemented these? https://w3c.github.io/webdriver/#get-computed-role

9:40 PM

These new endpoints sneak up on me

Simon Stewart 9:40 PM

There are a few. The Shadow DOM ones are new as well

Titus Fortner 9:41 PM

oh no, python & java

Simon Stewart 9:41 PM

I think @AutomatedTester has snuck in a broader API than the rest of us since he actually reads specs

Titus Fortner 9:41 PM

sneaky

Simon Stewart 9:41 PM

Clever lad

David Burns 9:41 PM

none of the shadow dom stuff is done

9:42 PM

but I am adding it to Firefox

Sri Harsha 9:42 PM

JS bindings have it too, only left with shadow-dom

Jim Evans 9:42 PM

@titusfortner.NET does the get computed ones too

David Burns 9:42 PM

If you watched todays twitch you would have seen why… I am not sure of the API for things not Java/.NET

Titus Fortner 9:43 PM

so what everyone is saying is that it’s just Ruby slacking

Diego Molina 9:43 PM

ok, so we’ll aim beta 3 for next Tuesday :slightly_smiling_face:

David Burns 9:43 PM

@titusfortner not ruby… whistles :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Diego Molina 9:43 PM

last topic is:

PRs that need to be reviewed

9:44 PM

there are a few ones that could be an “easy” merge and ideally they do not need a lot of time for a review

I also see @Puja Jagani now contributing to the C# bindings, which is great!

I’ll list the PRs here:

Python

https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/pull/9336

David Burns

done

Diego Molina

thank you!

Diego Molina 9:47 PM

Java:

9:48 PM

in case you have some spare time, @AutomatedTester @jimevans @simonstewart

that’s all I had in the agenda :slightly_smiling_face:

Blog: Public Project Meeting - March 25, 2021

Thu, 25 Mar 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on March 25, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 9:54 PM

Agenda for the public meeting:

General project statistics
Pending work that needs to be done for the third Beta?
CoC, next steps?

Please feel free to add any other topics

pinging @jimevans @barancev @simonstewart @AutomatedTester @titusfortner @harsha509 @luke @Puja Jagani and anyone else who wants to join

Simon Stewart 9:56 PM

Thanks for the ping :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 9:58 PM

forgot to ping @manoj9788 and @mmerrell

Marcus Merrell 10:00 PM

I haven’t heard back about the CoC work - last we left it, Karen was reaching out to Larissa

David Burns 10:00 PM

I will message Larissa now to see if that happened

Marcus Merrell 10:01 PM

thanks

10:01

I can make contact with her too, if you want to cut yourself out as the middle man I might be able to speed things up

around the conference, it sounds like the Holiday Inn in Chicago is undergoing an ownership change, and hasn’t gotten back to us about postponing to 2022 that’s as of last week

David Burns 10:02 PM

I’ve messaged her in the Mozilla Alumni slack

Marcus Merrell 10:03 PM

ok, thanks

Diego Molina 10:03 PM

Sounds good, so we covered one topic already :slightly_smiling_face:

So… General project statistics

Previous meeting: 202 open issues, 32 open PRs
Current: 178, 23 PRs

Simon Stewart 10:04 PM

That’s amazing work, folks

Diego Molina 10:04 PM

We are doing pretty well there, I went through many issues and asked if they are still valid. Depending on their reply we can close around 20 more in 2-3 weeks.

Most of the open issues are either feature requests, for the JS and C# bindings Perhaps we need to search for folks to give us a hand there

Simon Stewart 10:06 PM

We could absolutely do with more committers.

Diego Molina 10:07 PM

I will look for folks who have frameworks built on top of Selenium and see if they have time to give us a hand

Simon Stewart 10:08 PM

That’s a great idea

Diego Molina 10:08 PM

I’ve seen this one called Watir, maybe they can help us

Titus Fortner 10:09 PM

They have a slack channel I can ask

Diego Molina 10:09 PM

The original idea is from Titus actually :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 10:09 PM

I mean, I cajoled Thomas from Capybara into helping :-D

we were down to one ruby labeled issue. This one we need some kind of decision on: https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/8179

maybe it’s a wontfix and can be closed, or we can figure out the right thing and knock out the changes

Simon Stewart 10:11 PM

Send Keys in actions is really meant for individual key presses. But I guess we could decompose a more complicated set of inputs to individual key presses and releases

Diego Molina 10:14 PM

Would you like to dig deeper into the issue right now, @titusfortner?

Titus Fortner 10:14 PM

I was generally looking at the needs-discussion ones: https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/labels/A-needs%20decision

if we need a discussion to figure out what is the right thing, this seems like a good forum for that if we need more info we can push it back til next meeting, etc

Diego Molina 10:15 PM

Makes sense, I can definitely go over those issues and put them in the agenda for the next one, good idea

Titus Fortner 10:15 PM

but no, I don’t need anything specific from that one

right now just wanted to raise it since we haven’t discussed it before :)

if and when we get guidance I/others can implement it, but need to know what to implement :-D or I’ll make the Watir dev do it

Diego Molina 10:18 PM

ok, next topic

Pending work that needs to be done for the third Beta?

Things left in Java, Python, JS, Ruby, C#?

“se:cdpVersion”?
Can all bindings do CDP over Grid?

Anything else on the client side?

Simon Stewart 10:19 PM

I have local diffs with se:cdpVersion wired up properly in Firefox and Chromium-based browsers It’s a little funky, and I’d like a test around it before doing much more

Titus Fortner 10:20 PM

We have cdpVersion hard coded for Firefox and are getting browser version to automatically serve the right version to Chrome/Edge the endpoint would make a couple things easier :)

Simon Stewart 10:21 PM

I’m making the browsers return the cdp version and endpoint in the capabilities

se:cdpVersion and se:cdp respectively

Titus Fortner 10:21 PM

oh yes, capabilities not endpoint, I knew what I meant to say in my brain ;-)

Simon Stewart 10:22 PM

Ha! :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 10:23 PM

Ok now, Server side:

Enable retries of commands where necessary using failsafe
Pipe VNC connectors through the websocket plumbing for live video
Return CDP url by using the Grid url
CDP url for Firefox
Platform matching but when platform is Windows
Investigate: Grid gets stuck when screenshot is taken in a terminated session

this is what I have in my list, not sure if there is anything more

Platform matching bug when platform is Windows

Simon Stewart 10:25 PM

We should already be sending the CDP url for the Grid in Capabilities

And I’ve got the CDP url for Firefox in my local patches

Diego Molina 10:25 PM

ah, that is true

scratching that

Simon Stewart 10:26 PM

Hurrah! One step closer :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 10:27 PM

by looking at the download numbers and issues created after beta 2, which is not a lot… what is our overall feeling about beta 3?

let’s say, when most of features and bugfixes are done we release it or do we want to wait a bit more for feedback?

David Burns 10:28 PM

I think do the bug fixes and release

Diego Molina 10:28 PM

+1 to that

David Burns 10:28 PM

the “closer” we are to a full release the more our pool will increase

a “better” question… what do we need to get to a RC?

Jim Evans 10:29 PM

.NET doesn’t do CDP over grid right now. a refactor is required to make that possible. i have it in progress, but it’s not ready to get committe.

David Burns 10:29 PM

so we need ^ to get to RC what else?

Simon Stewart 10:29 PM

Oh. Yeah. RC backwards compat

David Burns 10:30 PM

I mean harder to get to points but wont stop beta releases

Simon Stewart 10:30 PM

I’d also like to properly clean up the java client code to strip out JWP support

David Burns 10:30 PM

and RC I mean release candidate

Simon Stewart 10:30 PM

But I think that’s going to be a hard thing to do

Diego Molina 10:30 PM

Simon using every chance to ship RC into Selenium 4 :smile: New

Simon Stewart 10:30 PM

We can do an RC once we think we’ve got all the features done

I suspect beta 3 may be our last beta, if @jimevans gets the time and support he needs for CDP over Grid

Diego Molina 10:32 PM

I am getting a new Windows machine, in part to see how I can help with C#, so expect questions @jimevans :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 10:32 PM

Amazing! :slightly_smiling_face:

Jim Evans 10:33 PM

@diemol happy to collaborate.

Diego Molina 10:33 PM

I believe we covered all topics, unless someone has anything else?

Michael Mintz 10:34 PM

Full official release of Selenium 4 by year’s end?

Simon Stewart 10:34 PM

Even sooner

When shall we aim to ship beta3?

Titus Fortner 10:35 PM

I’m waiting for Simon to decide he has to rewrite the Java HTTP Client before we ship Se 4 ;-)

David Burns 10:35 PM

not next week as I am away but the week after maybe?

Diego Molina 10:37 PM

2-3 weeks from now would be realistic, I think

Simon Stewart 10:37 PM

Here’s the plan, then. We’ll ship beta3 when two of these conditions are met:

The .net bindings support CDP over Grid
We send se:cdpVersion in Capabilities and that’s also handled by Grid
Two weeks have passed

Sound good?

Diego Molina 10:38 PM

Sounds good to me

alright, that sounds like a wrap for today’s meeting… however, if anyone has a comment about what we discussed today, feel free to comment it here at any time

Titus Fortner 10:43 PM

Thanks @diemol!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - March 11, 2021

Thu, 11 Mar 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on March 11, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 9:59 PM

Hopefully it will be a brief one :slightly_smiling_face: pinging folks for the public project meeting… @AutomatedTester @harsha509 @titusfortner @mmerrell @jimevans @simonstewart @barancev @luke

10:01

Agenda for today:

General project statistics
Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?
CoC, next steps?
Pending work that needs to be done for the second Beta?

if you have any more topics, please feel free to add them

Titus Fortner 10:02 PM

:wave:

Sri Harsha 10:02 PM

:wave:

Diego Molina 10:03 PM

ok, let’s start slowly while people join… first topic is:

General project statistics

Previous meeting: 234 open issues, 32 open PRs Current: 202, 32 PRs

10:04

Again, really great work lowering the number of open issues!

Diego Molina 10:05 PM

What I see in the open issues, every now and then, is a few feature requests.

I think it’d be helpful to give some feedback on them at some point

Titus Fortner 10:05 PM

I need to remember not to add PRs until after the meeting :)

Diego Molina 10:06 PM

for now, I am closing a few feature requests because they are not aligned at all with Selenium or because no one has commented in over 1.5 years

10:07

ok, let’s move to the next topic Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?

10:08

@mmerrell @barancev @simonstewart @manoj9788 @jimevans

Simon Stewart 10:08 PM

Nothing major. @mmerrell was going to chat with the SFC about the Coc

Diego Molina 10:08 PM

perfect, that was the next topic, CoC :slightly_smiling_face:

do we know what we can do to speed the process a bit? We had an incident in the past few days where a CoC would be helpful https://groups.google.com/g/selenium-users/c/bpeUO9vAa2A

10:10

Could we add the https://www.contributor-covenant.org/ as a start and then iterate on it when the SFC has time?

Marcus Merrell 10:10 PM

that chat happened, and Karen is supposed to reach out to the contractor - I haven’t pinged her in a week, but I can do that

Diego Molina 10:11 PM

thank you, @mmerrell!

David Burns 10:11 PM

I think we can just copy what Sage did from their repos

Diego Molina 10:11 PM

that is also a good idea to have a place to start

David Burns 10:11 PM

yea

10:11

and I think we can have the odd hour from Sage to process it since they work for the SFC now

Diego Molina 10:12 PM

I forgot about that, I’d say we can do that

10:13

what do the other folks think?

Simon Stewart 10:13 PM

I’m okay with that

Marcus Merrell 10:14 PM

I’m fine with it… I simply can’t believe it’s been a year

David Burns 10:16 PM

tbf… I could have pushed harder but since I am with ${employer} that can be hard to find time

Marcus Merrell 10:16 PM

I’m in the same boat, but it’s unreasonable that we have to push this hard as far as I know, we’re a top revenue driver for the SFC, and asking a lawyer to do an hour of lawyering does not seem unreasonable

but we aren’t in a position to make a big change here, so I’ll keep pressing where I can

Diego Molina 10:18 PM

absolutely, at least it feels that we can have a CoC soon by following this path

do you still have the docs Sage gave us, @AutomatedTester?

Marcus Merrell 10:19 PM

if we get that, do we still need to go through the SFC and everything?

David Burns 10:19 PM

I am sure I do

Diego Molina 10:19 PM

I think we still need an expert on the field to help us refine the edges so we are sure we have something good in place

Marcus Merrell 10:19 PM

ok, good

10:20

I just pinged KS

David Burns 10:20 PM

at worst I can take Sage’s repos and just cobble something together

Diego Molina 10:20 PM

perfect, that’d be great

ok, perhaps we can move to the next topic?

Pending work that needs to be done for the second Beta?

Titus Fortner 10:24 PM

we’re as good on grid as we’re going to get without changing the underlying http client, right?

Diego Molina 10:24 PM

ok, so this is what I have about that: Server changes:

Pipe VNC connectors through the websocket plumbing for live video (nice to have for Beta 2, not a must)
Return CDP url by using the Grid url (nice to have for Beta 2, not a must)
Allow timeout, cleanupCycle to be configured in Grid (this is about allowing users configure some timeouts, @Puja Jagani did a part of it already, the rest seems simple, but not a must for Beta 2)

Things left in Java, Python, JS, Ruby, C#?

Using se:cdpVersion

yes, about the http client, I’d say so, but we will know more after people use beta 2

Titus Fortner 10:25 PM

is there a reason we can’t release 2 right away and do the rest for 3?

there are a few things in the Ruby code I want to be able to start using

I’m assuming there have been enough improvements elsewhere to justify a new release?

Would be nice to have more smaller releases so long as code/tests are in a good shape

Diego Molina 10:27 PM

I also have the feeling that the major issue was the Grid memory usage, which we adjusted by having a single http client instance everything else seems to be small adjustments, some could happen for beta 2 and the rest for beta 3

Simon Stewart 10:27 PM

I think so

I’m fine with no getting the se:cdpVersion stuff in before we push the next beta

10:28

Also on my list before 4.0 is getting script pinning using CDP up and running

That feels somewhat gnarly

Diego Molina 10:30 PM

sounds good, so maybe let’s sync during the next days to see when we can release beta 2 (as in, when people are around to give their input as well)

David Burns 10:30 PM

It sounds like there is nothing left to do…

Diego Molina 10:30 PM

we need to fix the javadocs

David Burns 10:31 PM

yes!

Diego Molina 10:31 PM

(maybe that is the most important issue for now :slightly_smiling_face:)

David Burns 10:32 PM

definitely the most important issue

Diego Molina 10:33 PM

ok, I think that was the meeting for today, do we have anything else we’d like to discuss?

David Burns 10:33 PM

nope

Sri Harsha 10:33 PM

we need to update JS doc too

https://www.selenium.dev/selenium/docs/api/javascript/index.html

Diego Molina 10:34 PM

true, while checking old issues, there are 3-4 we could close by updating the docs

ok, so let’s wrap today’s meeting with that, thank you everyone!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - February 25, 2021

Thu, 25 Feb 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on February 25, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 9:54 PM

@titusfortner @barancev @harsha509 @luke @jimevans @simonstewart

Luke Hill 9:54 PM

Yip. I’m here if needed.

Diego Molina 9:55 PM

The only topic I have today, to make it a short meeting, is: “what is needed for beta 2” Feel free to add/propose any other topics

Luke Hill 9:59 PM

Alongside that, do we have a rough idea of what would enable us to release a 4.0.0 proper (i.e. what milestones we need to hit)

Diego Molina 10:01 PM

Let’s wait a few minutes to see if we have enough people to start the meeting

Titus Fortner 10:04 PM

I have a couple minor things I want to do before beta2, but the sooner the better for me :)

Simon Stewart 10:04 PM

I’m in a planning meeting, but I’ll follow along slowly

Titus Fortner 10:05 PM

(Element#dom_attribute is the main one I want to finish). I think Java, C# both have that one already

Diego Molina 10:05 PM

Ok, then let’s start with the ones who are around. Only one topic so far: “what is needed for beta 2”

What comes to my head: fixing the leak :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 10:05 PM

Crush the leaks. Ensure CDP on Grid to a Docker instance works

Diego Molina 10:06 PM

Regarding the leak, after reading more about the AsyncHttpClient issues and their google group…

10:07

they mention that each AsyncHttpClient instance has its own pool

Diego Molina 10:07 PM

which is why they recommend to have one single instance of it

Puja Jagani

After you pointed out the potential problem area, I attempted to use single instance of the AsyncHttpClient today and still saw the leak :confused: Will try and dig deeper tomorrow. Let me know if you want me to try something in particular.

Diego Molina

One single instance for the whole distributor?

Puja Jagani

One single instance as we had earlier, similar to https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/blob/selenium-4.0.0-alpha-7/java/client/src/org/openqa/selenium/remote/http/netty/NettyClient.java#L41 java/client/src/org/openqa/selenium/remote/http/netty/NettyClient.java:41 private static final AsyncHttpClient httpClient = https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium|SeleniumHQ/seleniumSeleniumHQ/selenium | Added by GitHub

Puja Jagani

This was just to narrow down the problem area. It was something I was trying to eliminate if creating a new instance is the problem or the way we handle the response (blocking bit you mentioned earlier)

Puja Jagani

Distributor heap with single instance :see_no_evil:

Diego Molina 10:08 PM

additionally you can limit the size of the pool

so I am planning to tweak the client configuration and see if that helps

10:09

sadly, the docs for AsyncHttpClient are inexistent, but it seems like a robust implementation it is used for Gatling

10:09

(a loat test tool)

10:10

load*

David Burns 10:12 PM

@simonstewart what’s left, assuming its everything, to “Ensure CDP on Grid to a Docker instance works”

Simon Stewart 10:12 PM

(In a meeting)

Titus Fortner 10:13 PM

each of the bindings need to be able to implement that part (getting debugger address from caps, etc)

David Burns 10:13 PM

@titusfortner it’s done?

10:14

it gets it from se:options

Titus Fortner 10:14 PM

I don’t think he’s done yet with the first part

he’s changing that

Simon Stewart 10:14 PM

se:cdp now I updated the bindings that use it

David Burns 10:14 PM

@simonstewart touched my code… filthy java person in my python code

Simon Stewart 10:14 PM

The “CDP in Grid” stuff will add se:cdpVersion

Luke Hill 10:14 PM

One of the new things I noticed in ruby (Not sure if it’s relevant across the board). Was the new chrome cdp stuff needs to be able to work in local/remote instances.

Simon Stewart 10:14 PM

“My precious….”

David Burns 10:14 PM

:stuck_out_tongue:

Simon Stewart 10:15 PM

@luke that’s what the se:cdp capability allows

Luke Hill 10:15 PM

One step ahead of me :smile:

Simon Stewart 10:15 PM

The Selenium Server knows how to forward CDP traffic

Titus Fortner 10:15 PM

yeah, Ruby code has never actually allowed users to benefit from browser specific functionality in Remote WebDriver because of subclassing blah blah

Luke Hill 10:15 PM

So check back again in beta2 is the answer basically.

Titus Fortner 10:15 PM

I have a PR to address it

Simon Stewart 10:15 PM

I’m going to make the local drivers also set se:cdp

Titus Fortner 10:16 PM

With that PR, the Ruby CDP code works with server only if it is on localhost, so we’ll also have to update to what Simon has done

Luke Hill 10:16 PM

We “know” what we need to do. Which is half the battle.

Titus Fortner 10:17 PM

With @p0deje been gone for a while and @twalpole being super busy it’s just a matter of bandwidth. :)

well, partly, I only know “ish”

Diego Molina 10:17 PM

it’s the chance for @luke to do some commits :slightly_smiling_face:

Luke Hill 10:18 PM

I can try help where possible. But I’m not quite on their standard.

Titus Fortner 10:18 PM

I’d also like to figure out how to do a different gem publishing for CDP versions

10:19

it’s more important that we be able to update the CDP versions to match the browser versions than Selenium methods to CDP methods, so I’d like to be able to release the artifacts independently, and let users toggle it somehow.

Luke Hill 10:19 PM

By Easter I will hopefully be in somewhere more stable again either renting or buying my first place. So yeh should be able to do more in evenings. This is going to be my fifth property move in just over 2 years

Titus Fortner 10:22 PM

How much work is there still in the leak investigation? (I ask because I literally have no idea what all is involved)

Diego Molina 10:23 PM

Not sure, I’ve invested this week and at least I’ve pinned it down to the Distributor

10:24

It eats memory over time when new tests are executed, and never returns it

I am now checking if the problem is really related to the AsyncHttpClient

10:25

well, more related to the way we use it

David Burns 10:25 PM

@diemol @Puja Jagani knows this is a priority so feel free to rope her in :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 10:26 PM

they recommend to have a single instance, and in the Distributor we have one instance per registered node, and one instance to do the health checks, and another one that I have not pinned down to see what it is

Simon Stewart 10:30 PM

Because each instance needs its own config

10:31

If we could change config per request, we’d be fine

Diego Molina 10:31 PM

they have a different base url, right?

Simon Stewart 10:31 PM

Right

10:32

And possibly time outs

Anything on the config object

Diego Molina 10:33 PM

I did not see different timeouts, but we will need them when we allow users to configure the timeout in Grid

Puja Jagani

I think the RequestBuilder allows to set timeouts per request.

Diego Molina 10:34 PM

so, hm, interesting… now sure what to do now :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 10:35 PM

Once again, I shall mutter about writing our own http client based on netty, starting from the one we have for domain sockets

Blog: Public Project Meeting - February 11, 2021

Thu, 11 Feb 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on February 11, 2021,5:30 PM CET. (Below times are on CET)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 5:31 PM

Agenda for today:

General project statistics (Previous meeting: 252 open issues, 35 open PRs, Current: 234, 32 PRs)
Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?
Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?
Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?
CoC, next steps?

@simonstewart @barancev @titusfortner @AutomatedTester

feel free to add more topics

intentionally not pinging Jim, Jim is not able to join

@harsha509 @luke and others, feel free to join as well

Simon Stewart 5:34 PM

@titusfortner wants to add “Remove Edge HTML”

Titus Fortner 5:35 PM

maybe a discussion of the general plan for post beta since it looks like the release is imminent?

Diego Molina 5:35 PM

Alright, first thing to mention is… great job everyone dealing with open PRs and open GH issues!

I don’t remember when we had such a “low” number of issues and PRs

but we can keep making that number smaller :slightly_smiling_face:

first topic: Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?

Alexei Barantsev 5:37 PM

I expect the number of bugreports to go up after beta 1 release date

people will download and try the new version

be prepared :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 5:38 PM

hopefully. :)

Luke Hill 5:38 PM

ah right. When are these and “should” I be coming to them? Also is there some form of meeting request with link on e.t.c.

I only ask because the cucumber one which I go to i’ve stuck on my calendar so I don’t forget.

Simon Stewart 5:38 PM

@luke there’s a public calendar we share

There’s something every Thursday at 4:30 UK time

Diego Molina 5:39 PM

I believe this is the link to the calendar, Luke https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=7nmc82h5ok17obircmdu27sghs%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Europe%2FBerlin

Simon Stewart 5:39 PM

We announce here 30 minutes before things kick off

Diego Molina 5:39 PM

So, anything from our first topic?

Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?

Luke Hill 5:40 PM

Rightio, is it just typed in here or is there a video call?

Diego Molina 5:40 PM

only typed

Simon Stewart 5:41 PM

Nothing much to report from the PLC/SFC call

Alexei Barantsev 5:41 PM

re: issues and PR, there is a new contributor to the JS part of the project, https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/pulls/potapovDim I think we should support him as much as possible, he seems to be motivated, I saw he streamed about official selenium JS binding to youtube

Simon Stewart 5:42 PM

We’re waiting for @mmerrell to report back: he was going to reach out to the SFC directly

@barancev +1 for supporting new folks. Anything we can do to help them?

Alexei Barantsev 5:42 PM

the JS part of the crew is traditionally underrepresented… so we should care about JS contributors very much

I’m trying to get into contact with potapovDim to get him more involved

David Burns 5:43 PM

I’ve been trying to make the JS bindings a first class citizen with bazel

I think I have that nearly done

Diego Molina 5:44 PM

ok, the next topic is:

Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?

Probably not so much?

Marcus Merrell 5:45 PM

I reached out to SFC about the CoC SOW - Karen responded that she’d look at it “tomorrow” which was last Wednesday. I’ll text her right now to see what she says

David Burns 5:45 PM

cool

our contact for the CoC is still free

Marcus Merrell 5:45 PM

you mean “available”?

David Burns 5:46 PM

No, she has been trying to get back to work but taking it slowly as she is shielding due to covid

Diego Molina 5:47 PM

ok, let’s jump to the main topic then

Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?

Simon Stewart 5:47 PM

There’s a few things on my list.

Primarily, the Options classes don’t serialise to a w3c-safe version automatically.

That won’t be hard to fix

David Burns 5:48 PM

My list has Firefox CDP in JS (nearly done)

Simon Stewart 5:48 PM

There’s been a team effort to get the Grid stable. It eats memory, but should work now (@barancev and @diemol can correct me on that)

Diego Molina 5:49 PM

I had these two items on the client side, are the still pending? Make relative locators return elements sorted by proximity Allow locator strategies to be pluggable Enable fallbacks for commands

Alexei Barantsev 5:49 PM

I think that the grid is ready to ship

Jim Evans 5:49 PM

my list is all post-beta1, mostly around refactoring to allow CDP in remote and to enable for firerfox.

Alexei Barantsev 5:49 PM

there is a memory leak, but it’s not critical for the beta

Simon Stewart 5:49 PM

@diemol both of those are done

Titus Fortner 5:50 PM

Firefox CDP shouldn’t need to hold up beta

do we need to fix Options to release beta?

hoping we can release more frequently after we get to beta, just want to know what has to be there for it to be a beta

Diego Molina 5:52 PM

when do we think we can have beta 1 released?

should we set a date for next week?

Titus Fortner 5:52 PM

tonight?

everything is green, so what feature do we need to hold up the release for?

can we do it all in future betas?

Diego Molina 5:53 PM

perhaps the only item is what @simonstewart mentioned?

Simon Stewart 5:53 PM

The Options thing is it, AFAIAC

Titus Fortner 5:54 PM

and we can’t release a beta without it? Is it a user facing change?

Simon Stewart 5:54 PM

It’s suboptimal to not be able to create webdriver instances in java

Titus Fortner 5:54 PM

I completely agree it’s needed

Simon Stewart 5:54 PM

It’s a user-facing change

Titus Fortner 5:54 PM

ok, then :) easy.

David Burns 5:54 PM

I mean… no one uses Java right

Simon Stewart 5:55 PM

Seldom touched.

It’s a niche thing

Jim Evans 5:55 PM

considers changing his name to “no one”

Titus Fortner 5:55 PM

I thought it was an sub-optimized thing that we fix in implementation

but if it changes what a user has to do, then great. Let’s set a date next week? :)

Simon Stewart 5:57 PM

We’ll ship when it’s ready.

But probably next week

Diego Molina 5:58 PM

could we set a tentative date?

So people have it in mind and, if possible, save some time for it

like, we target next Thursday and we touch base on Tuesday to see if we actually can make it, what do you think?

Titus Fortner 6:01 PM

Whatever makes sense to Simon. Ruby stuff should be ready to go on short notice

Simon Stewart 6:03 PM

I’m very time constrained.

But Monday and Tuesday should be selenium days for me

Alexei Barantsev 6:04 PM

let’s ship on Monday then

David Burns 6:04 PM

Python stuff is ready, changelog is already updated

Simon Stewart 6:05 PM

@barancev if everything works on Monday, we ship on Monday

Alexei Barantsev 6:06 PM

yes, if everything works

Titus Fortner 6:06 PM

sounds good to me

excited for it

David Burns 6:06 PM

Let’s not set a date, as much as I want a beta. People will focus on it too much

Diego Molina 6:06 PM

sounds good, my intention was just to drive this conversation :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 6:08 PM

Are we ready to talk about removing EdgeHTML? :)

Diego Molina 6:08 PM

got for it

Titus Fortner 6:09 PM

who wants to keep it in Selenium4?

No one? Ok, let’s remove it.

Simon Stewart 6:09 PM

I’m going to let @jimevans make the call

Titus Fortner 6:10 PM

seriously, though, it’ll be less confusing for calling “edge” methods in Se4 to represent the latest instead of having to require people to specify “edge_chrome” and “edge_html”, etc

Simon Stewart 6:10 PM

I’m fine with edge and edgehtml

Titus Fortner 6:10 PM

well “edge” used to be edgehtml

Simon Stewart 6:10 PM

Everyone who’s lazy will get the right thing by accident

Titus Fortner 6:10 PM

so it’s going to be a change either way

but I’m fine with whatever @jimevans decides on it

Jim Evans 6:11 PM

let me make the call regarding EdgeHTML?

Simon Stewart 6:11 PM

Yeah

Titus Fortner 6:12 PM

should we all ditch explicit support for it in Se 4 since MS is forcing people off of it… :)

Alexei Barantsev 6:12 PM

@titusfortner we provide support for IE :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 6:13 PM

IE is and will remain special

Diego Molina 6:13 PM

this is about EdgeHTML, not IE, right?

David Burns 6:13 PM

Looks like bwalderman submitted a patch for python to remove it a while back

Titus Fortner 6:13 PM

I think MS can force upgrading from EdgeHTML to Edgium more easily than forcing people to upgrade IE

David Burns 6:13 PM

bwalderman of John Jansen’s team

Alexei Barantsev 6:13 PM

@diemol yes, EdgeHTML, not IE

Jim Evans 6:13 PM

given that they’re doing forced-upgrades of people on EdgeHTML, i’m inclined to remove support for it. sure as we do, you know people will still be like “how do i test against edgehtml, since i don’t give any reflection on what my users are actually using and don’t want to have to think critically.”

is quite cynical today.

David Burns 6:14 PM

so… that was my question really…

Simon Stewart 6:14 PM

I’m down with removing it from the java tree, then

David Burns 6:14 PM

is Sauce dropping support for it?

or magic “here is an old selenium to support it” type code

Titus Fortner 6:15 PM

if the decision were up to me, yes, but it isn’t, so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Diego Molina 6:15 PM

to be honest, I don’t know how we are doing it

David Burns 6:16 PM

we could ask your product team especially since they are starting their day or … drop it with a big YOLO

Diego Molina 6:16 PM

but if it is browser that won’t be supported by MS starting on March(?), we will eventually drop it

Titus Fortner 6:16 PM

I can see valid use cases for IE, I don’t see valid use cases for old Edge, and yeah, it’s all complicated since things have changed since 3.141.59

Diego Molina 6:16 PM

goes and asks the team in charge

Titus Fortner 6:17 PM

Dude, we still support running Firefox 4 on Vista

David Burns 6:18 PM

screenshots this for that team if they come moaning…

Titus Fortner 6:18 PM

So, you can test EdgeHTML with MutableCapabilities if you need to

David Burns 6:19 PM

the python code treats them the same, just creates a different service

Titus Fortner 6:21 PM

Titus: supports Jim: inclined to support

anyone else with opinions on keeping it?

it’s really the force upgrades that is pushing me to be more drastic in the recommendation, plus the potential confusion over the method

David Burns 6:22 PM

I’m happy to drop

Diego Molina 6:22 PM

+1 to that

Titus Fortner 6:22 PM

@barancev?

Oh, missed Simon saying he’s good with it

whew, ok, I’ll stop banging on about it :)

thanks

Diego Molina 6:25 PM @titusfortner, maybe you can create a GitHub issue and add labels for each language binding? Then we can track it

Titus Fortner 6:25 PM

Another ask…

Can we create a list of the new features that the bindings need to implement so that we can make sure all the languages are supporting the same things?

Some of the stuff being done in Java I’m not sure if it is grid related or bindings related.

I know Ruby is missing a few things, and I’m not even sure I know which all of them are.

Diego Molina 6:28 PM

I think we would need to go through the changelogs and build that list

David Burns 6:30 PM

@titusfortner thanks for offering to make sure the docs are up to date

Titus Fortner 6:30 PM

Can we make a grid in an issue, or do we need to track it elsewhere

I legit tried to help with the docs, but Go kicked my butt and I threw in the towel

I’m sticking with Jekyll where the OO makes sense :)

Diego Molina 6:31 PM

an issue would be nice

David Burns 6:31 PM

What…

@titusfortner you should watch my twitch… the docs are easy

Diego Molina 6:32 PM

Can we make a grid in an issue, or do we need to track it elsewhere

I am replying to this

lol

David Burns 6:32 PM

The what was for Titus

Diego Molina 6:32 PM

ok, so the meeting time is up, thank you everyone!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - January 28, 2021

Thu, 28 Jan 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on January 28, 2021,5:30 PM CET.(Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 9:17 PM

Yes, here is the short agenda:

General project statistics (Previous meeting: 262 open issues, 54 open PRs, Current: 252, 35 PRs)
Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?
Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?
CoC, next steps?

Alexei Barantsev 9:44 PM

can the Bot drop the meeting link to the chat, please, I always forget where to get it…

Diego Molina 9:53 PM

this is the written one

Alexei Barantsev 9:58 PM

awesome! I’m in yet I have nothing to add to the agenda

Diego Molina 10:01 PM

sounds good I’ll ping people around and we can wait a couple of minutes, Simon said he was going to be slightly late

10:02 PM

@titusfortner @jimevans @mmerrell @manoj9788 @AutomatedTester @harsha509 @luke

Jim Evans 10:03 PM

i’m not going to be able to make the video chat, but i can contribute here if people have questions. the only thing missing from .NET for beta1 is making CDP work via remote, which i don’t think needs to be in beta1 for .NET.

Diego Molina 10:06 PM

this is just the written one, the video chat is just to hangout, that one is next week

Marcus Merrell 10:06 PM

no status chance on the Chicago conference at this point - still looking at COVID numbers to determine whether or not it’s going to be feasible

David Burns 10:07 PM

here! sorry

Diego Molina 10:07 PM

Marcus are we still looking into an online event, Marcus?

Marcus Merrell 10:07 PM

we can look into that haven’t been to this point

Diego Molina 10:08 PM

I only ask because (I think) it was mentioned last time ok, perhaps we can start, the first topic is: Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?

10:10 PM

Aside from @luke joining recently, there are no more things to announce, right?

Sri Harsha 10:10 PM

I think luke joined recently!

Simon Stewart 10:10 PM

Nothing that I can think off

Alexei Barantsev 10:12 PM

I support @diemol’s appeal to focus attention to the issue tracker. let’s try to clean it up in view of the forthcoming v.4 release

10:13

close all outdated issues and PRs, apply everything that worth applying

Diego Molina 10:13 PM

the work done during the recent week on the issue tracker has been great, hopefully we keep that going

10:14 PM

we could jump into the next topic perhaps… Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta? here is the list I have from the last meeting

10:15 PM

Client facing changes:

Make relative locators return elements sorted by proximity
Fix Java Module System problems (I think @simonstewart did this already)
Allow locator strategies to be pluggable Enable fallbacks for commands

Server changes:

Enable retries of commands where necessary using failsafe
Get the Grid UI looking nice, and returning useful data (@diemol is working on this)
Allow locator strategies to be pluggable
Pipe VNC connectors through the websocket plumbing for live video

Simon Stewart 10:15 PM

Relative locators now sort by proximity I think the Java Module stuff is working I’m working on fallbacks for locators

Alexei Barantsev 10:15 PM

I can confirm that java 9 modules are usable now

Simon Stewart 10:16 PM

Locator strategies are pluggable on the server side Once I get the locator strategies falling back on the local end, I’m fine with shipping the beta

Diego Molina 10:17 PM

we had some issue reports related to the Grid, in most of the cases it is a matter of showing the correct information on the UI and I am working on that

Simon Stewart 10:18 PM

Also there’s a nasty issue with starting a large number of sessions concurrently

Diego Molina 10:18 PM

yeah, I was going to point that one out, https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/9112 I have not had time to research enough, but most of the results when googling point to: either we are creating too many Netty clients or something is wrong with the way the client is created

David Burns 10:20 PM

Feel free to pull in @Puja Jagani on the sessions one, I know she was looking at one about starting up a grid and things not working

10:20 PM

(can’t remember the issue #)

Diego Molina 10:20 PM

that’d be great, I can sync with @Puja Jagani later what do you all estimate for a beta release? 3-4 weeks?

Simon Stewart 10:21 PM

Maybe less

Diego Molina 10:23 PM

ok, I think we do not have more things pending for beta 1? the only topic left is the CoC New

Titus Fortner 10:24 PM

Is this a good time/forum to ask about wiki/docs?

Diego Molina 10:24 PM

always

Titus Fortner 10:25 PM

Diego pointed me at a couple issues @AutomatedTester created for docs & wiki cleanup things did we have an idea for what we want in the language specific wiki page vs in the docs; and user vs developer focused? The Ruby wiki stuff is way out of date, not even just Selenium 4 things :) just want to know where we should be cleaning it up to

Diego Molina 10:28 PM

are those two different things? language specific things and dev docs? (people who want to contribute to Selenium, what technical steps to follow?)

David Burns 10:28 PM

CoC is still waiting on SFC. New

Titus Fortner 10:29 PM

What we did with Watir was to make the wiki about things devs need to know about the project building/deploying, etc and everything user related went into the documentation oh, heh, looks like we ended up deleting the wiki and sending everything to the website

Diego Molina 10:32 PM

Why do we need a language bindings specific things on the user docs? Do they differ too much on how they work?

Titus Fortner 10:33 PM

So our current documentation has tabs to show the examples in each of the languages the wiki is currently just a big page of examples for using Ruby Selenium (https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/wiki/Ruby-Bindings)

10:37

I guess I haven’t spent much time with the docs anyway, so maybe I should play around and see what makes sense. Didn’t know if anyone else had opinions on any of it. :) Guess not

Diego Molina 10:38 PM

ah ok, that Wiki seems to be duplicating the user docs but some parts of the Wiki could evolve to be part of the user docs

Titus Fortner 10:39 PM

yeah, it’s 2 approaches to organization as well; here’s everything in ruby, vs here’s everything, click the tab for each to see the ruby.

Diego Molina 10:39 PM

I think the 2nd could work well someone needs to take the time and take the contents of that Wiki and put them in the docs

Titus Fortner 10:39 PM

I’ll take a look at what might make sense since now that I no longer have any looming work pressing things for the first time in forever

Diego Molina 10:40 PM

cool thank you

I think that was it for today, right?

Thank you everyone!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - January 14, 2021

Thu, 14 Jan 2021 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on January 14, 2021,5:30 PM CET.(Below times are on IST)

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 10:02 PM

Alright, :wave: everyone, let me share the agenda

10:02 PM

Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?
Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?
Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?
CoC, next steps?
Any other topics?

10:04 PM

pinging @titusfortner, @AutomatedTester, @mmerrell, @barancev

who else?

Simon Stewart 10:04 PM

@jimevans @p0deje @harsha509

Jim Evans 10:05 PM

i’m already in another meeting at the moment.

Sri Harsha 10:05 PM

m available

Diego Molina 10:05 PM

ok, let’s bring the first topic: Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?

David Burns 10:05 PM

here

Diego Molina 10:06 PM

So, I asked both to the TLC members about adding @luke as a committer, and I also reached out to Luke, both sides are happy with it.

David Burns 10:06 PM

cool!

Diego Molina 10:07 PM

Then, I will add Luke during the next couple of days and follow the steps we have in the Governance model

Simon Stewart 10:08 PM

Congratulations, @luke! :tada:

Diego Molina 10:09 PM

great! So, I think we have nothing else to add to this point?

Marcus Merrell 10:09 PM

I’ve got approval emails out to SFC to get the new contractor on the Code of Conduct. It’s time to poke again. We’ve tentatively selected dates for a Chicago SeConf (sometime in September, I believe). We’re still hopeful that with the vaccine, this will be possible. we’ll look to make a final decision, based on numbers, in ~April :parrot:

10:11 PM

We need to consider whether or not to run a virtual conference in the case that it doesn’t work out to have an irl conference

Simon Stewart 10:11 PM

Can that decision also be delayed until April?

Marcus Merrell 10:11 PM

I’m a little uncomfortable waiting that long–not for the hotel and the risk of losing the deposit $$, but because of marketing/CFP stuff let’s say “early April”

Diego Molina 10:12 PM

Great news about the CoC! ok, seems we covered also the “Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?” topic as well, right?

Simon Stewart 10:14 PM

I think so

Diego Molina 10:15 PM

ok, so let’s jump to “Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?”

Simon Stewart 10:15 PM

There’s a few things

10:16 PM

I’ve a PR out for the new RemoteWebDriverBuilder, which is one piece. The other big bit for me is the pluggable locators, tying up the local and remote ends bits we already have. That’ll be easier with the RemoteWebDriverBuilder in place.

10:17 PM

(As it’s essentially creating new decorators of the CommandExecutor) I’d also like to ensure that things like the relative locators and script pinning work as advertised, but that’s a relatively slim tranche of work My next hacking days are Monday and Tuesday next week

Diego Molina 10:18 PM

here is a list from the previous status meeting: Client facing changes:

Make relative locators return elements sorted by proximity
Fix Java Module System problems
Allow locator strategies to be pluggable Enable fallbacks for commands
Server changes:
Enable retries of commands where necessary using failsafe
Get the Grid UI looking nice, and returning useful data
Allow locator strategies to be pluggable
Pipe VNC connectors through the websocket plumbing for live video

10:19 PM

I think this is (partly?) done “Allow locator strategies to be pluggable” and I remember @simonstewart did this “Make relative locators return elements sorted by proximity”

Simon Stewart 10:19 PM

I did The Java Module System thing is a good point, but not a huge amount of work

10:20 PM

Though it’s a little fiddly

Titus Fortner 10:20 PM

is the “pluggable” part a Java specific thing, or something new that the server is going to support that opens up new opportunities for dynamic languages?

David Burns 10:20 PM

@Puja Jagani could probably look at the Java Module work

Puja Jagani

Sure! I can take that up

Simon Stewart 10:20 PM

I can discuss the changes with her

10:21 PM

@titusfortner the remote end bits of the pluggable locators allow us to avoid sending large payloads across the wire for (eg) finding by react But it requires the local end to know in advance that it can use that mechanism Tying the pieces together with a fallback allows the local end to try the efficient way first and then fallback to the inefficient way

10:22 PM

It shouldn’t be a particularly challenging thing to do once the pieces are all nicely lined up, but getting the pieces lined up has taken time :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 10:24 PM

I am slowly getting more time to work on some open issues and getting some items from that list on the server done, like using failsafe for retries

Puja Jagani

I created a PR to get started on that front for transient errors, please have a look when time permits. I think that might serve as the starting point.

Diego Molina

perfect, will do

Simon Stewart 10:24 PM

I think the BrowserStack folks (particularly @rajendra?) are hacking on the Grid UI and can give an update on that I’m happy to punt the failsafe stuff for the beta, but it really should be in place for the 4.0 release

Diego Molina 10:24 PM

I saw one or two GH issues related to that, if I am faster than @rajendra I can tackle it and get familiar with the UI I would leave this one out as well Pipe VNC connectors through the websocket plumbing for live video

10:25 PM for beta 1 hopefully it could be there for the 4.0 release

Simon Stewart 10:25 PM

I think that’s just a case of adding the video URL to the se:options in the server Should be in the same place as we add the bit for cdp

David Burns 10:26 PM

I had a quick look at the grid-ui in a stream… my CSS sucksbut happy to pair up and fix

Diego Molina 10:26 PM

ah, so the scope is way smaller than what I was thinking

Simon Stewart 10:26 PM

The WebSocket forwarding either works or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, CDP over the Grid is broken And I already got the CDP over Grid working :slightly_smiling_face:

David Burns 10:26 PM

@Puja Jagani is looking at adding a few more issues with graphql that we can surface

Diego Molina 10:27 PM

so we offer the WebSocket endpoint and the user can use it to stream

Simon Stewart 10:27 PM

Can we “drain” using GraphQL yet?

David Burns

I dont think so

David Burns

we can get the grid ui to call a normal url

Simon Stewart

The idea would be to use GraphQL for the entire UI….

David Burns

We can add it “soon” but since it works we don’t need to block a beta on it. Let’s have a stretch for it

Simon Stewart

But it doesn’t work if you have a distributed grid

Simon Stewart

It’s one of the “tracer bullets” of the graphql stuff, and really does need to be in

Simon Stewart

I want the beta as much as anyone, but there are some corners we should avoid cutting

Simon Stewart 10:27 PM

@diemol it’s a tiny bit more than that, but, yeah

Diego Molina 10:27 PM

I thought we wanted to put that in the Grid UI

Simon Stewart 10:27 PM

We do before 4.0

Diego Molina 10:27 PM

we would need to embed a VNC client in the UI for that

Simon Stewart 10:27 PM

But for the alpha, I’m happy with the endpoint being exposed and being able to wire up a vnc viewer locally that goes through the grid @diemol what did zalenium use?

Diego Molina 10:28 PM

noVNC, but that was something that you need to install on the host, IIRC

10:29 PM

ah, I think it also has a JS library, it “should” work there is also an alternative called “Guacamole”

Simon Stewart 10:29 PM

http://guacamole.apache.org might be useful Ha!

Diego Molina 10:30 PM

right, so I can look at that at some point

Simon Stewart 10:30 PM

Awesome. Thank you

Diego Molina 10:30 PM

coming back to pluggable locators, it is working in Java but we would need the other bindings to implement it, right?

Simon Stewart 10:31 PM

When it’s working in Java, yes :slightly_smiling_face: But I think it’s enough to get them in one binding for the beta, and the others can follow

Diego Molina 10:31 PM

Also, the reworked logic for relative locators has been implemented only in Java?

Simon Stewart 10:32 PM

The reworked logic was in the atom. Everyone has it Yay for the atoms!

10:32

:slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 10:32 PM

That’s great! Do we have anything else? I will (for sure) this time create GitHub issues for the different items

Simon Stewart 10:34 PM

And add them to the project plan, please!

Diego Molina 10:34 PM

absolutely

Simon Stewart 10:35 PM

Thank you

Diego Molina 10:36 PM

Well, I think we do not have other topics, should we cut it short? New

Simon Stewart 10:38 PM

I’m down with that. Thanking for running this! Unless @jimevans has something to add? I see he’s typing

Jim Evans 10:38 PM

re pluggable locators: that’s just having findElement(s) call down the wire using the end point without validating the using and value params, yeah?

Simon Stewart 10:39 PM

That’s what the java code does at the moment

Jim Evans 10:39 PM

cool. .NET can do that too right now, i think (will have to confirm)

Simon Stewart 10:39 PM

I want to land a few more smarts

David Burns 10:39 PM

I expect the python and ruby code can do it to since monkey patching is easy and then add smarts too improve docs ftw

Diego Molina 10:43 PM

ok, seems we are done with the status meeting, thank you everyone!

Jim Evans 10:45 PM

re beta readiness: i have a refactor to .NET i want to do to make CDP via RemoteWebDriver easier/more correct, but it can wait until post-beta1

10:45

otherwise, i think .NET is ready for beta.

Blog: Public Project Meeting - December 03, 2020

Thu, 03 Dec 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on December 03, 2020,5:30 PM CET.

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Diego Molina 5:32 PM

So, things from the previous meeting

General project statistics

Previous meeting: 280 open issues, 62 open PRs
Current: 278, 60 PRs

Diego Molina 5:35 PM

here are the topics that we initially cover today:

Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?

Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?

Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?

are we all around to start?

Simon Stewart 5:38 PM

@titusfortner @jimevans @p0deje @barancev @AutomatedTester @harsha509

David Burns 5:39 PM

I’m here

Diego Molina 5:41 PM

The first topic is: Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc? I believe there is not much about this, right?

Simon Stewart 5:41 PM

Nothing from me

David Burns 5:42 PM

nope

Diego Molina 5:43 PM

Maybe, just for awareness of the meeting minutes, for the ones who read them we are doing a survey that will help with the future of Selenium https://twitter.com/SeleniumHQ/status/1333830343368077319

David Burns 5:44 PM

We’ve had nearly 400 respondents

Diego Molina 5:44 PM

and Boni García replied to it with https://www.mdpi.com/2079-9292/9/7/1067 I have not read it yet

David Burns 5:44 PM

if you haven’t retweeted the survey, could you do that please?

Simon Stewart 5:44 PM

I hadn’t seen the reply

Diego Molina 5:46 PM

Boni is the creator of WebDriverManager and a JUnit 5 extension for Selenium I think he is a professor at a university in Madrid

Simon Stewart 5:47 PM

I’m glad WebDriverManager exists

Diego Molina 5:47 PM

Alright, maybe we should have a read at that document and report our findings :slightly_smiling_face:

So, probably we can move to the next topic: Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?

I think there was one call a couple of days ago

David Burns 5:50 PM

Main question: did someone follow up on my CoC request?

I did email again

and mentioned it to @mmerrell

Simon Stewart 5:51 PM

Monday is my next Selenium day. If no-one has responded by then, I’ll chase

Diego Molina 5:52 PM

ok, probably we can move to the next topic and circle back to this one if someone has more information

Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?

This is what we wrote/discussed in the previous meeting:

Client facing changes:

Make relative locators return elements sorted by proximity
Fix Java Module System problems
Allow locator strategies to be pluggable
Enable fallbacks for commands

Server changes:

Enable retries of commands where necessary using failsafe
Get the Grid UI looking nice, and returning useful data
Allow locator strategies to be pluggable
Pipe VNC connectors through the websocket plumbing for live video

I have on me the task to map this list into GitHub issues in case they do not exist (I have not done it yet)

Simon Stewart 5:54 PM

I’ve made relative locators return elements sorted by proximity

Diego Molina 5:54 PM

is there something else to add? do we have an status update on any item?

Simon Stewart 5:55 PM

My plan on Monday is to look at pluggable locator strategies

Which will require fallbacks for commands

David Burns 5:55 PM

I’ve been working with the Mozilla folk to add bidi support for Firefox, there are bugs on their side that they are working on

Marcus Merrell 5:55 PM

I’m sorry, @AutomatedTester , I never received an email about it. I don’t know if there’s a list I’m not on, or if my address is wrong, or if it went to spam, but I don’t have it

I’ll be glad to follow up if I can get the info

David Burns 5:56 PM

@mmerrell I emailed selenium@sfc

Marcus Merrell 5:56 PM

Right… guess I need to verify that I’m on that

Simon Stewart 5:58 PM

You should be.

Diego Molina 5:59 PM

Which will require fallbacks for commands I am sorry I never found the time to check your branch and work on it

Marcus Merrell 5:59 PM

I haven’t seen any of the sponsor emails either… starting to think there’s a problem

Diego Molina 6:02 PM

ok, so I believe we don’t have any more comments for this?

Simon Stewart 6:02 PM

Not from me

(Looks like a short meeting today, he says. Jinxing it)

Alexei Barantsev 6:04 PM

as for the beta1, I’m going to add commands getAriaRole and getAccessibilityName and I call java api complete

Diego Molina 6:05 PM

perhaps the last thing to mention is that I have pending to fill out the table about who has access to the distribution engines (npmi, sonartype, etc…) so the idea is that I will make sure we all have access to all of them

Simon Stewart 6:05 PM

Speaking of which, we really do need to push a JS release

Anyone want to volunteer for that?

David Burns 6:05 PM

If it’s not done this evening I will do it

about to take youngest to ballet so will be out for a few hours

Alexei Barantsev 6:06 PM

I’ve enabled GitHub integration in sonarcube, so it should sync org members and provide access

Simon Stewart 6:07 PM

That’s nice

Thank you

Diego Molina 6:09 PM

well, so I think that’s it for this meeting, right?

Simon Stewart 6:10 PM

I think so

Diego Molina 6:11 PM

ok, then, thank you all!

Titus Fortner 6:49 PM

Sorry to miss; I was giving training. Also, I miss getting to travel for these; Zoom is just not the same…

Titus Fortner 7:02 PM

I haven’t looked, has the print pdf endpoint been added to all the bindings? I haven’t looked in past 2 weeks, but Ruby & .NET needs to implement FF Full Page screenshot, Java (.NET?) need to be able to tell Firefox to take a full Page Screenshot when using RemoteWebDriver Java & Ruby need to re-fix the STP browser name

Ruby stuff was on my to-do list, until my paid work job gave me a daunting task with a short timeline

Jim Evans 7:04 PM

.NET hasn’t added print-to-pdf yet.

nor full-page screenshot.

Titus Fortner 7:06 PM

on that note @barancev I couldn’t duplicate the Ruby Remote Firefox bug on Mac, and VirtualBox appears to be a disaster running on Mac because I can’t even get it to play nicely with a Linux install to test it there. NET read timeout is often a random network problem, but it looks like we’ve been seeing the error consistently, so I’m concerned about it being a real problem. @p0deje do you have a linux machine available to see if we can replicate locally?

Alex Rodionov 9:35 PM

@titusfortner Not really and frankly I don’t have spare time to set it up to investigate

Speaking of which, I’ll be leaving for a 1 month road trip next week and I won’t be able to do any Selenium work during that time. Likely till early February in fact. If there is anything I can do before that, please let me know.

Titus Fortner 9:39 PM

@p0deje when do you leave?

Alex Rodionov 9:40 PM

Next Wednesday

Titus Fortner 9:45 PM

oof, well I’ve been assigned to create and give 20+ hours of classroom training on Selenium for a client between now and EOY, and I have maybe half of that right now :) I should be more available in January to help, but I’ve spent more time with the Selenium java code than Ruby code recently, so I’m not sure how we have the DevTools stuff implemented. @twalpole what’s your availability this month? :-D

David Burns 9:49 PM do we have people to do releases for ruby with @p0deje away?

Alex Rodionov 9:50 PM

According to https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/8168, a currently missing CDP stuff in Ruby is: Intercept network requests allowing to mock backend requests Bootstrap script Record traffic The first two I believe are implemented in Java so it should not be hard to redo it in Ruby. I might give it a shot this weekend. The latter I think is missing in all bindings. @titusfortner we can hop on pairing session and I’ll guide you through the code. Otherwise, it all lives in devtools directory

@AutomatedTester Yes, Titus can do releases

David Burns 9:52 PM

don’t forget that @rajendra can help, BS is a ruby shop so we can help

he’s been looking through the code for the devtools stuff and is working the print stuff

Titus Fortner 10:02 PM

I’ll have bandwidth to do a release, but not to dig through the implementations until January :)

Blog: Public Project Meeting - November 19, 2020

Thu, 19 Nov 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on November 19, 2020 (times are on IST).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on December 03, 2020,5:30 PM CET.

Simon Stewart 9:53 PM

@diemol are you running today’s status update?

Diego Molina 9:55 PM

I can do that I always forget because the event has no notifications

let me look for the agenda Some numbers before starting: Previous meeting: 281 open issues, 61 open PRs Current: 280, 62 PRs

Simon Stewart 9:58 PM

I’ve added a 30 minute reminder to the meeting in Google Calendar

Diego Molina 10:00 PM

From previous agendas, I believe these could be the topics:

Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?
Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?
Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?
Users/passwords, access keys, etc… to distribution and release repositories.
CoC, next steps?

10:00

Feel free to add topics

10:01

Should we start? pinging @AutomatedTester @titusfortner @harsha509 @jimevans @manoj9788 @mmerrell @barancev @p0deje

Sri Harsha 10:04 PM

m in

Simon Stewart 10:04 PM

Here!

Diego Molina 10:05 PM

First topic: Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?

David Burns 10:05 PM

here

Simon Stewart 10:06 PM

We really need to agree an emoji for “I’ve nothing to say”

:shushing_face: maybe?

David Burns 10:06 PM :speak_no_evil:

Diego Molina 10:06 PM

:speak_no_evil:

Simon Stewart 10:06 PM

I like that We shipped 4a7 Nice work, everyone

Diego Molina 10:08 PM

ok, let’s move to the next topic :slightly_smiling_face:

2nd topic: Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?

Simon Stewart 10:09 PM

I missed it

David Burns 10:10 PM

There were notes from @jimevans re: a meeting at the end of October, was that the last SFC?

https://seleniumhq.slack.com/archives/C013TSZD4P5/p1604415853013000

Diego Molina 10:12 PM

right, I remember that, probably that covers the topic then, next one :slightly_smiling_face: 3rd topic: Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?

Simon Stewart 10:13 PM

There’s a lot. Mostly in Java I think we should all get together at some point and figure out how closely our CDP-based functionality aligns I think it’s pretty close, but I know that there are few things that @jimevans did that I’d like “take inspiration” from

David Burns 10:14 PM

Can we get things documented since you can be a bottle neck due to life. How can we, being my team, help here?

Simon Stewart 10:14 PM

lient facing changes:
Make relative locators return elements sorted by proximity
Fix Java Module System problems
Allow locator strategies to be pluggable
Enable fallbacks for commands

10:16

Server changes:

Enable retries of commands where necessary using failsafe
Get the Grid UI looking nice, and returning useful data
Allow locator strategies to be pluggable
Pipe VNC connectors through the websocket plumbing for live video

@AutomatedTester ^^ I documented them :stuck_out_tongue: CDP for Firefox would be handy too

David Burns 10:17 PM I am going to start CDP for Firefox tomorrow

Simon Stewart 10:17 PM

Are there docs on how to find the ws address to use?

David Burns 10:17 PM

No… I will document it

Diego Molina 10:17 PM

we really need some sort of docs to have a decent feature parity across bindings

Titus Fortner 10:17 PM

does all the CDP stuff work for Edge as well right now? I haven’t tried anything but Chrome so far

David Burns 10:18 PM

I have a “try” build of geckodriver with it that I need to play with

Simon Stewart 10:18 PM

The Java stuff works for edge too

Titus Fortner 10:18 PM

I was doing a brief analysis of some things for a talk I was giving, and we implemented features in Selenium 3 at very different versions between the bindings. Kind of surprised me :)

Simon Stewart 10:18 PM

Heh. Jari was fast :slightly_smiling_face:

David Burns 10:19 PM

misses Jari

Diego Molina 10:20 PM

do we have GitHub issues for the items missing for beta?

Jim Evans 10:20 PM

those notes were from the 3 november call, which was the last PLC call (they only happen monthly)

Simon Stewart 10:20 PM

Most of those things are in the project plan, @diemol

Jim Evans 10:21 PM

so there’s a bug in .NET alpha7 that prevents the bindings from working with grid 4. (it’s fixed now)

Titus Fortner 10:21 PM

I mentioned recently that Java & Ruby don’t have the right STP name still in 4 alpha and .NET & Ruby both need to add support for full page screenshots in Firefox. Not sure what list that needs to get added to? (I’ll try to get to the Ruby stuff this weekend)

Jim Evans 10:22 PM

print-to-pdf end point?

Simon Stewart 10:22 PM

@jimevans I think the check in the java bindings may be a little too extreme, so we may need to loosen things there too @titusfortner good point. The STP thing is irksome. I need to dig into it

Jim Evans 10:23 PM

sorry i’m late to the party, btw. was spending a few minutes with P this morning before her first client.

Titus Fortner 10:23 PM

I tried to fix it in Java, but I was missing pieces. Someone who knows what they are doing, should be easy

Simon Stewart 10:23 PM

It’s not easy If it was, I’d have fixed it already :slightly_smiling_face: Or @barancev would have

Titus Fortner 10:23 PM

STP went from “Safari” to “Safari Technology Preview” back to “Safari” I changed Ruby to the longer version when I thought I was using the latest STP (I was not)

Simon Stewart 10:24 PM

I think I need to tease apart the two versions of the browser more

Titus Fortner 10:24 PM

I think we just need to support the latest version

Simon Stewart 10:24 PM

I’ll have a chat with folks here to figure out the Right Thing to do

Jim Evans 10:24 PM

i want .NET to undergo a radical refactor in its class structure before 4.0 releases. now that we have a web standard, the current class hierarchy is wrong.

Simon Stewart 10:24 PM

Yeah, just the latest version

Jim Evans 10:24 PM

well, not really “radical,” but definitely a change

Simon Stewart 10:25 PM

@jimevans we really need to find a way to get someone helping you with the .net stuff

Jim Evans 10:25 PM

nothing breaking, API-wise. with .NET 5 being out, it should be a fair sight easier.

Diego Molina 10:27 PM

We can spread the word about the help we need in the different bindings, either for refactoring or reaching feature parity if we have those changes described somewhere, ideally a GitHub issue. Then we could tweet or something, saying we need help with this issue.

David Burns 10:28 PM

Well… I have an idea I would like to share towards this but I can do that at another time unless now is a good time

Simon Stewart 10:28 PM

The Java module stuff is obvious if you use java modules

Jim Evans 10:28 PM

so, right now, the .NET class hierarchy is RemoteWebDriver (implements IWebDriver et al) -> all browser-specific drivers. what it should be is abstract class WebDriver (implements IWebDriver) -> RemoteWebDriver, and also abstract WebDriver -> browser specific drivers. if i’m clever about it, this will not be a breaking API change, because IWebDriver is still A Thing™.

Simon Stewart 10:28 PM

Just like the java 8 issue was

Diego Molina 10:29 PM

Please share, @AutomatedTester

Jim Evans 10:30 PM

my ${paidWork} project is approaching a bit of stability, so i should be able to devote some time between now and the end of the year, hopefully.

Jim Evans 10:30 PM

my ${paidWork} project is approaching a bit of stability, so i should be able to devote some time between now and the end of the year, hopefully.

David Burns 10:31 PM I would like to, with support of this group, see about creating a Yak Day. The idea is, and it requires a bit of upfront work, to get issues in place for this and then see if we can get contributors

Jim Evans 10:31 PM

the idea in Selenium 5 is to start phasing out the use of IWebDriver in favor of using the abstract base class.

David Burns 10:32 PM

it would also require that I, or others, do a “How to contribute” video to share before hand

Jim Evans 10:32 PM

(sorry for the parallel idea-spewing into the channel, but i’ve been thinking about this, and not really talked about it to anyone outside the multiple voices in my own head.)

David Burns 10:32 PM

and if we split it accordingly to language bindings and services we can see if we can try build out a bit more support for each langauge and may get us more contributors.

Simon Stewart 10:33 PM

There’ll be hoops I need to jump through, but I can jump through them to make that happen

David Burns 10:33 PM

I appreciate it can flood us with junk and we would need to work out to how to prevent that

Simon Stewart 10:33 PM

I’ve got some half-written docs for building with bazel for selenium.dev too

David Burns 10:33 PM

but the general gist is create tiny bits of work to build up contributors

Titus Fortner 10:34 PM

So, I don’t know what everything that is on the lists mentioned above entails, but I do want to put in a generic plug that we make sure things absolutely need to be in 4.0. If we can release something “good enough” to iterate on through 4.x releases, it’s going to be *much better than a super polished codebase that isn’t released for another 6 months.

Diego Molina 10:34 PM

that would be really great

David Burns 10:35 PM

I agree @titusfortner, while we are in alpha we have a limited usage group but we have finite resources so its a fine line to tread

Titus Fortner 10:36 PM

nope, totally understand; we’re all volunteers and such. just requesting we keep in mind that perfect is the enemy of releasing something that makes current users lives better

Simon Stewart 10:36 PM

After 4.0 ships, I’m going to be stepping away I’ll probably stay involved with WebDriver Bidi, but I won’t be cutting code

Diego Molina 10:37 PM

no no, you cannot leave us alone with bazel :smile:

Titus Fortner 10:37 PM

Yeah, I get that this is a factor for sure :)

David Burns 10:37 PM

Bazel isn’t that scary

Titus Fortner 10:38 PM

isn’t the point of bazel that we shouldn’t have much issue with it once everything transitions? :-D

Simon Stewart 10:38 PM

I’ll still be hacking on bazel

David Burns 10:38 PM

I’ve been contributing to that community recently… going to overtake @simonstewart knowledge soon :smile:

Simon Stewart 10:38 PM

One can only hope

Jim Evans 10:39 PM

bazel is fine… as long as your language and toolset’s opinions don’t conflict with bazel’s

David Burns 10:39 PM

@jimevans I’m finding that works with all languages… but that’s an aside

Simon Stewart 10:39 PM

@jimevans I want to see better .net support in bazel What I need is a) time, b) a Windows machine

Jim Evans 10:40 PM

well some languages’ tooling are more opinionated than others. (see: MSFT is all in on MSBuild, and any other build tool will always, always, always be a second-class citizen.)

Diego Molina 10:40 PM

Can the project buy you one?

Jim Evans 10:41 PM

@simonstewart i’ve had remarkably good luck using VMs and VMWare Fusion.

Simon Stewart 10:41 PM

My hard drive is currently stuffed with multiple versions of macOS.

Jim Evans 10:41 PM

like, that’s been my exclusive .NET dev environment for going on 8 years now.

Simon Stewart 10:42 PM

Once I get more storage, I can try a VM again

Diego Molina 10:42 PM

but ok, to the topic, which was Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta? I believe we have commented the most of it

10:43

I will go through the meeting minutes and then create GitHub issues if I don’t find any for the items mentioned

Simon Stewart 10:43 PM

For me, “beta 1” means “this is what you’ll get in 4.0, but there are known issues”

Jim Evans 10:43 PM

.NET needs to add the “make CDP user scenarios easy” methods to be added.

Diego Molina 10:43 PM

and I will ping you to add details about it

Jim Evans 10:44 PM

yikes that’s atrocious grammar. but you get my meaning.

Diego Molina 10:44 PM

should we move to the last two topics? we have 16 minutes left

David Burns 10:44 PM

go for it :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 10:44 PM

4th topic: Users/passwords, access keys, etc… to distribution and release repositories. So, recently @AutomatedTester & me got access to the project to release Java, but in general, if we ever need to do a release and the key folks are missing we do not have access to this information

Jim Evans 10:45 PM anyone who wants access to the nuget repo, create a nuget.org account (requires a “microsoft account”), and let me know. i’ll add you to the organization for selenium.

Titus Fortner 10:46 PM

who owns email access to selenium.dev? I think we should get a project email/password for these things instead of each using our own?

Sri Harsha 10:46 PM

i got access to npm selenium-webdriver package

Diego Molina 10:46 PM

for example, we were able to get access to the npm org recently, so @harsha509 could do a JS release

David Burns 10:46 PM

and we got access for NPM :wink:

Diego Molina 10:46 PM

I thought we could be more proactive in this and not wait until we need the person to share the access.

Titus Fortner 10:47 PM

I mean, if people sign up for rubygems and send me their email, I can add them to the list of authorized users; but might scale better if there were a lastpass/onepass/whateverpass that stores universal credentials…

David Burns 10:47 PM

The only place I can think of is nuget python has a few people but we can add more. The other place is Google Storage, do we have enough people with access there?

Simon Stewart 10:49 PM

I’ve got Google Storage. @jimevans does too. I think Luke may still have the keys.

Diego Molina 10:51 PM

I believe it is a matter of someone doing the work and going one by one to give access to the TLC to all what we need. I can find some time to do that

10:52

ok, then the last topic 10:52 CoC, next steps?

David Burns 10:53 PM

CoC is waiting on SFC/PLC to reply to my message I should follow up I have found a contractor, ex-head of D&I from Mozilla, to help do the work

lukeis:indeed: 10:55 PM

yeah, i still have the google storage keys… tucked away in an archive i put in my personal google drive :grimacing:

Simon Stewart 10:55 PM

I’ve put together a quick Google Doc for folks to add their names to for access to release pathways.

David Burns 10:56 PM

thanks @simonstewart!

lukeis:indeed: 10:57 PM

we got rid of the google app-engine driving seleniumhq.org right?

Simon Stewart 10:58 PM

I can’t remember where we deploy selenium.dev to It may still be app engine

David Burns 10:58 PM

selenium.dev is on github pages

Diego Molina 10:58 PM

We use GitHub Pages

David Burns 10:58 PM

via Hugo

Simon Stewart 10:59 PM

https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/seleniumhq.github.io/blob/dev/.github/workflows/deploy.yml#L26 .github/workflows/deploy.yml:26 uses: peaceiris/actions-gh-pages@v3 https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/seleniumhq.github.io|SeleniumHQ/seleniumhq.github.ioSeleniumHQ/seleniumhq.github.io | Added by GitHub

lukeis:indeed: 11:00 PM

yeah, the sehq app engine still exists… and the dashboard seems like it’s still getting some kind of requests (very few) wonder if it’s still handling some redirects

Diego Molina 11:02 PM

it should be mostly redirects I need to leave, but thank you all for joining!

Titus Fortner 11:02 PM

Thanks @diemol!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - October 08, 2020

Thu, 08 Oct 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on October 08, 2020 (times are on IST).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on October 22, 2020,5:30 PM CET.

Diego Molina 9:03 PM

Perhaps the main topics to discuss are these ones: Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call? Pending work that needs to be done for Alpha 7?

9:03

anything else that we need to talk about?

Simon Stewart 9:04 PM

Also paging @mmerrell and @manoj9788

9:05

Not much to share from the PLC call this week

9:05

Tentative thoughts about where we might be able to host SeConf next year, and puzzling out whether we can meet in person

Marcus Merrell 9:05 PM

here now

Simon Stewart 9:06 PM

@mmerrell can give more of an update

Marcus Merrell 9:06 PM

if I understand it correctly, we have ~$40,000 tied up with the Chicago venue, and it would be the path of least resistance to hold it there

9:08

we’ll start meeting around the first of November to start planning something there… I’d much rather hold it in the EU, but with the loss of White October, we’d need to a) find an organizing entity, and b) be prepared to pay ~double what we paid WOE, and only have a conference of half the size (i.e. we’d likely lose $$). We’ll need to decide whether or not it’d be worth it

Diego Molina 9:12 PM

if we plan ahead of time, and things are ok in terms of covid, it can happen in the EU, we have contacts here. We could ask orgs that have conferences like Agile Testing Days to give us a hand. Just throwing ideas here.

9:13

Or the folks at MoT

9:13

Next topic?

Simon Stewart 9:14 PM

Sure

9:14 Alpha 7 talk?

Diego Molina 9:14 PM

Yes

Simon Stewart 9:15 PM

@jimevans is working on the CDP stuff for .Net

9:15

I’m busy implementing some of the nice features we’ve wanted for a while (including things like script pinning)

9:15

I know that @AutomatedTester has mostly wrangled Python into shape with the CDP stuff

Diego Molina 9:15 PM

We have the PRs for the queue, which I reviewed but it’d be nice if you have a look again, Simon

9:16

(grid)

Simon Stewart 9:16 PM

But I don’t know if it supports multiple versions

9:16

I can have a look at them tomorrow

Diego Molina 9:16 PM

Specially 8754, not sure about using two concurrent arrays there

9:17

Aside from what you mentioned, and the PRs for the queue, I think we are good for Alpha 7

Simon Stewart 9:18 PM

Aye

Diego Molina 9:19 PM

sooo, I think we are done with the meeting?

Simon Stewart 9:27 PM

I think so

9:27

Unless there’s anything else people want to talk about ?

Diego Molina 9:36 PM

Doesn’t seem like that Thank you everyone!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - September 24, 2020

Thu, 24 Sep 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on September 24, 2020 (times are on IST).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on October 09, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.

Diego Molina 9:00 PM

So this is the proposed agenda, and @AutomatedTester has some more topics: General project statistics

Previous meeting: 334 open issues, 63 open PRs
Current: 281, 61 PRs Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?
Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?
Pending work that needs to be done for Alpha 7?
Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?

David Burns 9:00 PM

I dont have more topic, I want to discuss some of those topics

Diego Molina 9:01 PM

I need to improve reading skill :slightly_smiling_face:

9:01 PM

OK, let’s start

Simon Stewart 9:01 PM

settles in

Diego Molina 9:02 PM

General project statistics Previous meeting: 334 open issues, 63 open PRs Current: 281, 61 PRs We are slowly cleaning the list of issues, more cleaning to come :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:02 PM

Another 32 weeks, and we’ll be done (Well, PRs)

David Burns 9:03 PM

I think we should pat ourselves on the back. In February we had over 600 issues

Diego Molina 9:03 PM

Absolutely

9:04

Ok, next topic Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc? I am not aware of any announcements…

Simon Stewart 9:04 PM

Not that I’m aware of

Diego Molina 9:04 PM

Ok, so probably the next topic won’t have any updates either Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?

Simon Stewart 9:05 PM

Not from me

Diego Molina 9:06 PM

Perfect, so let’s jump to the next one Pending work that needs to be done for Alpha 7?

Jim Evans:black_medium_square: 9:06 PM .NET needs a fair bit of refactor for CDP i’m planning on taking all day tomorrow to look at that.

David Burns 9:07 PM

Oh that’s awesome

Simon Stewart 9:07 PM

The java code is in a releasable state, I think Though I broke a test in the distributor, so I may want to fix that before landing

Rajendra Kadam 9:07 PM

I am working on js cdp stuff

David Burns 9:07 PM

The python code for here is just me putting in the work to make the API not suck

Jim Evans:black_medium_square: 9:07 PM

once i get CDP generation redone for C#, i’ll be pretty happy with the state of the .NET code base.

Simon Stewart 9:07 PM

There’s the session queue PR that it’d be nice to land, but I don’t think it’s essential

David Burns 9:07 PM

@p0deje has the Ruby stuff done

Diego Molina 9:07 PM

I am reviewing @Puja Jagani’s PR about the session queue, it’d be nice to have it for the alpha

Simon Stewart 9:07 PM

@jimevans this is good news :slightly_smiling_face:

Jim Evans:black_medium_square: 9:08 PM

i do need to think about a “version independent API for CDP” for .NET

Titus Fortner 9:08 PM

Do we need cdp for alpha 7? There are a number of bug fixes from 6 to get out there

Simon Stewart 9:08 PM

I’d like us to have a fairly unified approach between (at least) java and .net for the unified CDP. Happy to make changes to the java tree to make that happen

David Burns 9:08 PM

The queueing stuff I think needs to be in the alpha so we can get it to nightly users

and then improve in the betas

Jim Evans:black_medium_square: 9:09 PM

@titusfortner i at least need to get that version-independent api done before alpha7. .NET skipped alpha6 altogether, because i suck.

Simon Stewart 9:09 PM

@titusfortner in the java tree, the new CDP stuff has allowed us to hook in a bunch of APIs. It’d be nice if those were in other languages too

David Burns 9:10 PM

but… feature wise after that we’re done right? I’m itching to get us out of alpha we’re not getting enough usage

Simon Stewart 9:10 PM

I think we’re basically there once it’s done How’s the UI looking?

Diego Molina 9:11 PM

Sounds like it, for Alpha 7, to summarise: CDP working across bindings Session queue in Grid

David Burns 9:11 PM

the UI is there, I think. We’ve fixed the main UI issues

Jim Evans:black_medium_square: 9:11 PM

i agree with that assessment. once CDP work for .NET is done, i’m considering it feature-complete for 4.x.

David Burns 9:11 PM

and that’s all in trunk

Diego Molina 9:13 PM

Great, I am not sure if there is anything else to add to the topic

Simon Stewart 9:13 PM

Other than a proposed date to release a7?

David Burns 9:13 PM

next week (no pressure everyone)

Jim Evans:black_medium_square: 9:14 PM

wednesday or after of next week. i’m sure i’m not going to get it all done in one day.

David Burns 9:14 PM

Thursday and Fridays are our normal release dates so that sounds good

Simon Stewart 9:14 PM

I’m going to make a decision to gate the release on @jimevans saying that .Net is ready to roll

Jim Evans:black_medium_square: 9:14 PM

to quote @AutomatedTester “no pressure” :slightly_smiling_face: we’re putting a stake in the ground saying a7 is our last alpha?

Simon Stewart 9:15 PM

With a hard stop-date of 2020-10-07 For java, yes And I think we have the most moving parts

Jim Evans:black_medium_square: 9:15 PM

(agreed as a7 being last alpha for .NET too)

Diego Molina 9:17 PM

Any comments from other bindings? @AutomatedTester @titusfortner @rajendra @harsha509?

David Burns 9:17 PM

I want us out of alpha so…

Simon Stewart 9:17 PM

@AutomatedTester we all want to be out of alpha

Rajendra Kadam 9:17 PM

working out for js, some tests issues, trying to fix those

Simon Stewart 9:17 PM

But we also don’t want to move “just because”

Sri Harsha 9:18 PM

JS is already in alpha 7, can we release JS npm with like alpha7-patch1 with CDP ?

Simon Stewart 9:18 PM

Bump JS to alpha8 Keep it simple :slightly_smiling_face:

Sri Harsha 9:19 PM

ok, Thank you @simonstewart

Diego Molina 9:21 PM

Does it make sense to discuss the next topic? “Betas”

Simon Stewart 9:22 PM

We can move on from “alphas” :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 9:22 PM

Like, having a timeline or something like that for Betas?

David Burns 9:22 PM

There are a number of issues that are “assigned” in the “in Progress” part of https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/projects/2 I think understanding which of those features are needed for use to move through the betas is important

Simon Stewart 9:23 PM

I have a pile of branches locally with changes If it’s in the 4.0 roadmap, that kind of suggests it’s needed before release If it’s not in the roadmap, we don’t need to worry about it (For the release itself) (We do need to worry about it)

David Burns 9:24 PM

so… I guess my request is, if you’re doing it, what can we do to get it sorted (like hand off to someone else) or if you’ve not started can you unassign yourself I think it would be good to get a clearer picture of where people can help

Simon Stewart 9:25 PM

I’m not actually assigned to that much

David Burns 9:25 PM

this is a comment to all of us really

Simon Stewart 9:25 PM

One code review, one “add support for retries to handlers” I’ve a local change that has the skeleton of retries written, as well as fallback URLs for commands

Diego Molina 9:27 PM

I’ve seen that one and wanted to check, but time hasn’t been on my side lately

Simon Stewart 9:27 PM

Join the club :slightly_smiling_face:

David Burns 9:28 PM

so part of my request really is knowing where I can help without having to badger you all I being me and my team

Simon Stewart 9:29 PM

Getting Grid rock solid would be really helpful I suspect we’re not really using ZMQ properly And if that falls over, we’re in trouble

David Burns 9:31 PM

we’ve engaged @adamgoucher and he seems Ok, but this is where I want to get more usage from betas and the grid is pretty solid we’ve fixed the main issues from browserstack at least

Simon Stewart 9:32 PM

One thing I’d quite like is a way to hook in SaaS providers to the Grid

David Burns 9:32 PM

and I would love to get a new alpha out so we can start using Jaegar more

Simon Stewart 9:33 PM

The Docker support also needs some work Firebase support and XRay would be nice for use in GCP and AWS Our HTTP client needs work: I don’t think reactor is really going to work for us

9:34

Every time I try and switch to it, there’s Yet Another Weird Failure

David Burns 9:35 PM

I am happy to get Puja involved here

Simon Stewart 9:36 PM

I think one thing we’d really love to demo is “deploying Grid to EKS” and seeing it start outputting information @Puja Jagani’s help would be amazing

Puja Jagani 9:36 PM

Would love to help!

Simon Stewart 9:36 PM

Awesomeness :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 9:36 PM

we can do that, it should not be hard :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 9:37 PM

Getting a Kafka version of EventBus would allow folks to use other hosted infra, but I think that may be too much for 4.0

Diego Molina 9:39 PM

I prefer to see the Gird being rock solid at its core, and when that is the case, add the other things

David Burns 9:39 PM

augementing things like that is a definite post 4.0 item

Diego Molina 9:39 PM

for example, I would say we can tackle the redis backed distributor after the release

Simon Stewart 9:40 PM

I’m working on some changes to make the state of the distributor serializable Once those are done, I’ll be a lot happier with it

Diego Molina 9:43 PM

Great, I think those are the topics for today, is there something else?

Simon Stewart 9:44 PM

Not from me

David Burns 9:44 PM

I’m done

Diego Molina 9:45 PM

Thanks everyone!

Simon Stewart 9:45 PM Thank you, @diemol!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - August 13, 2020

Thu, 13 Aug 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on August 13, 2020 (times are on IST).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on August 27, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.

Diego Molina 7:58 PM :wave:

Here is the agenda for today
General project statistics (Previous meeting: 338 open issues, 73 open PRs)
Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?
Improving workflow (Reviewing PRs, Improving design requirements)
Selenium Conf website in GitHub org? (README is pending)
IDE to the main repo?
Users/passwords, access keys, etc… to distribution and release repositories.
Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?
Conferences. Status for SeConf India & SeConf Chicago?
Pending work that needs to be done for Alpha 7?
Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?
Selenium Branding guide
Selenium marketing strategy (e.g: Webpack)
CoC, next steps?
Did anyone talk to Miki about the go bindings? (This topic has been skipped in the previous meetings but it is good to keep it on the agenda so we act on it when we have more bandwidth)

8:00 PM

Let’s start with the 1st item General project statistics (Previous meeting: 338 open issues, 73 open PRs)

8:01 PM

Current statistics 334 open issues, 63 open PRs Next item Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc? Not that I am aware, anyone else?

David Burns 8:02 PM

No, but I would like to propose to create a new team on github for my team to at least have triage ability on bugs

8:03 PM

I can’t assign bugs unless they are somehow associated to the org

Diego Molina 8:03 PM

That is a good idea, I had the thought of creating a triage team and add people who are helping already in the #selenium channel, like @Salmon Mode :+1:

Simon Stewart 8:03 PM

+1 for a triage team

Diego Molina 8:04 PM

We should add that to the governance model

David Burns 8:04 PM

we can always discuss commit bit for my team at a later stage but I want them in the org

Diego Molina 8:04 PM

as a way to be part of the team without the need of explicitly be a committer

8:05 PM

who wants to take that task? add this to the governance model?

David Burns 8:05 PM

I can

Diego Molina 8:05 PM

:thumbsup:

8:06 PM

next topic? Improving workflow (Reviewing PRs, Improving design requirements)

David Burns 8:06 PM

that’s mine

8:07 PM

I would like to see if there is a way we can get designs for what people want descrribed better in issues I have noticed people misinterpretting requests in bugs that my team are working on

8:08 PM

and I dont know if it’s tribal knowledge that is missing or general experience or what can we get more definitive process for this

Simon Stewart 8:08 PM

“misinterpreting”?

David Burns 8:09 PM

well, we started down the observability issue and there are cases where work was done based on what their intrepretation was and it turned out to be different they didnt have the same context and motivation behind the changes

Simon Stewart 8:10 PM

It really helped when we had a conversation about the event stuff And since I’d planned to do that work myself, it seemed more lightweight not to fully describe everything in the issue

David Burns 8:10 PM

I agree, and I want to see if there are times we can front load that in to the issue rather than go down, write code , it’s wrong, try again

Simon Stewart 8:10 PM

Maybe if we make clear that they’re a placeholder for a conversation and identify who to speak to?

Diego Molina 8:11 PM

what I am missing in general about this, is that the decisions made through conversations in Slack are not being written in the GitHub issues or in the PRs, which makes things hard to review and move on

David Burns 8:11 PM

there is that too

8:12 PM

but having a converrsation requires the person that needs to be spoken to being free which isnt always a realistic expectation due to numerrous factors

Simon Stewart 8:13 PM

True, but front-loading all the design work is also impractical

David Burns 8:13 PM

I guess if we add more context and motivation that would be a good halfway point

8:13 PM

motivation being the main one for me.

Diego Molina 8:13 PM

what we also need to realise is that we did not have something that looked like a roadmap before, Simon helped with his brain dump that turned into the GitHub issues we have for the Selenium 4 release project so we are in a better place than the one we were but I agree that more detail on what is intended in the issues is needed, a natural next step in the iteration :+1:

David Burns 8:14 PM

agreed

8:15 PM

because, and this is my next item, if we can have some more info in issues it’s easierr to review there are changes that I can review and I go for correctness in the java server but it might be the wrong idea and we have PRs that sit, again due to people having lives and can’t always be here

Diego Molina 8:16 PM

do you think we should back to the open issues and find ways to extend them and make them more clear?

Simon Stewart 8:17 PM

Select the subset that are needing clarification and ask?

David Burns 8:17 PM

I have started doing that with some of the next load of work that I want my team to work on my goal, like everyone, is to ship se4

Simon Stewart 8:17 PM

Agreed And I want to help make that happen

8:18 PM

But I’m under some weird time constraints

David Burns 8:18 PM

I know, I am not blaming anyone

Simon Stewart 8:18 PM

I know :slightly_smiling_face:

David Burns 8:18 PM

I just want to make your life easier and my team’s and you’re kinda in both

8:19 PM

so… since code is mutable… can we go with I review for correctness, if it’s wrong and we spot then a new issue is raised with more context/motivation? and I will put it on my team’s stack?

8:20 PM

I feel this issue could raise it’s head with Sauce if they expand their team

Diego Molina 8:20 PM

uh, I need the simple English translation for that phrase

David Burns 8:21 PM

heh… sorry since I can review code, and make sure we have tests. If I feel it’s ok to merge I will, after a few days

8:22 PM

if others in this group disagree with the change, let me know, I will add it to our work and will get it sorted The issue of missing context and motivation could happen to anyone joining this group e.g. Sauce expanding their OSS team

Diego Molina 8:24 PM

got it, thanks for the translation I don’t see any issue with that, I think it makes sense in the end we can always improve things after merging code

David Burns 8:24 PM

cool. there are a few PRs from my team that have been sitting for a while

8:25 PM

and didn’t feel I could merge as I didnt have confidence in the serverr (give me a browser any day)

Diego Molina 8:26 PM

I am finding ways to help a bit more there, but we should follow your suggestion, I would appreciate a comment in the PR before merging it, like “hey, this has been sitting for while, it looks correct to me, I’ll merge it tomorrow unless someone has something against” :+1:

David Burns 8:27 PM

deal and we can get to a stage where my team can review each other which would be even better

Diego Molina 8:27 PM

:thumbsup:

8:28 PM

Next topic? Selenium Conf website in GitHub org? (README is pending)

8:29 PM

Quick update here, Andrew gave me an intro on how to make changes, the setup is more complex than I thought. We are in the process of documenting it. We should in the near future formalise a team in the governance model for the Selenium conference, there is a lot of work happening there that should be more recognised :+1:

8:30 PM

Next topic IDE to the main repo?

8:30 PM

I’ve seen @AutomatedTester and @rajendra moving the IDE repo into bazel, right?

David Burns 8:31 PM

bazel work is hand once that is done we can move it over wholesale I think the bazel work is 40% of packages. Tests still need doing but we’re touch the rough edges of bazel here

8:32 PM

we’ve both been chatting to people on the bazel slack

Diego Molina 8:32 PM

thanks for the update next topic?

8:33 PM

Users/passwords, access keys, etc… to distribution and release repositories. I added this one

8:34 PM

A few weeks ago I changed the way docker-selenium is released, moved it to GitHub actions, since I did not know the password used to push the images to Docker Hub, I had to reset the password and use it there

8:35 PM

which means that I am the only one who has the password now, and I believe this is the case for many other things we have (npm, python and ruby stuff, stores for Google/Firefox etc..) is there a way the ones in the TLC can have access to this information?

Simon Stewart 8:35 PM

We have some of the passwords stored in LastPass

Diego Molina 8:35 PM

and also consolidate it?

Simon Stewart 8:36 PM

We can share out individual credentials as needed

Diego Molina 8:36 PM

the thing is that the “as needed” moment usually comes when the one who has the credentials is not available

Simon Stewart 8:37 PM

That’s why we share them on LastPass :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 8:37 PM

We could create a selenium account for Rubygems and share the password, right now it is giving individual accounts permission manually

Diego Molina 8:38 PM

Who has access to LastPass and can give access to all the TLC members?

Simon Stewart 8:38 PM

I do. Everyone in the PLC should have it too

Diego Molina 8:38 PM

I am only referring to credentials needed for releases and so on do we want to have different types of credentials mixed?

Simon Stewart 8:38 PM

(Sinking into a meeting where I need to talk at work. Dropping out of here)

Diego Molina 8:39 PM

Ok, then we can touch this topic again in the next meeting, but we already started it :slightly_smiling_face: Next topic: Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?

8:40 PM

Seems not :slightly_smiling_face: Next topic: Conferences. Status for SeConf India & SeConf Chicago?

David Burns 8:42 PM

@mmerrell or @manoj9788 ?

Diego Molina 8:42 PM

I know India is virtual and there is a schedule already, I think they are figuring out if workshops will be done :+1::skin-tone-4:

Diego Molina 8:43 PM

and I saw that Chicago is officially postponed to 2021

David Burns 8:43 PM

in that case, move this topic to just india and then post that conference drop it from the agenda for a while

Diego Molina 8:44 PM

ok, makes sense next topic: Pending work that needs to be done for Alpha 7? Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta? I am not sure if there are many updates here

8:44 PM

I think we need to land those PRs that are sitting to move to the last alpha

Marcus Merrell 8:46 PM

Yeah–we’ve moved out all SeConf Chicago meetings until November. We’re working to choose a new date with the venue for next year, and working on language in the contract that will allow us “ultimate cancel ability” if this thing continues to be a problem. We can move that off of the agenda for the time being :+1:

8:47 PM

I don’t have any new information about India - as far as I know there are no changes to the plan

Diego Molina 8:48 PM

thanks Marcus!

8:49 PM

So, I know that the 4 remaining topics in the agenda have no updates, so I suggest we skip them and we end the meeting early what do you think?

David Burns 8:49 PM

fine @mmerrell hey… friendly poke about that draining PR

Diego Molina 8:51 PM

ok, thanks everyone for your time!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - July 02, 2020

Thu, 02 Jul 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on July 02, 2020 (times are on IST).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on July 16, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.

Diego Molina 8:00 PM

Hi all, who is in for the Public Project meeting?

8:01 PM

Here is the overall agenda:
Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?
Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?
Did anyone talk to Miki about the go bindings?
This topic has been skipped in the previous meetings but it is good to keep it on the agenda so we act on it when we have more bandwidth
Pending work that needs to be done for Alpha 7?
Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta?
Conferences. Status for SeConf India & SeConf Chicago?
Selenium Conf website in GitHub org?
IDE to the main repo?
CoC, next steps?
Selenium Branding guide
Selenium marketing strategy (e.g: Webpack) (if anyone wants to add something, feel free to do it)

8:02 PM

First, some project health: General project statistics Previous meeting: 343 open issues, 72 open PRs Now: 338 open issues, 73 open PRs

David Burns 8:03 PM

looks like healthy movement as I know I’ve handled a few issues and PRs personally

Diego Molina 8:03 PM

Next topic: Overall announcements? New people on committees, with the commit bit, etc?

Simon Stewart 8:04 PM

WebDriver BiDi meeting was yesterday. There’s some spec prose

David Burns 8:04 PM

@tourdedave is stepping back from the tlc, for a while at least unless I have misunderstood

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:05 PM

@AutomatedTester stepping into TLC

Simon Stewart 8:05 PM

I thought he did that a while ago, but we failed to update everything

David Burns 8:05 PM

its more official :)

Diego Molina 8:05 PM

do we want to remove him from the list explicitly? does it make a difference?

Simon Stewart 8:05 PM

And @AutomatedTester should have been in the TLC from the start :man-facepalming::skin-tone-2:

“The list”? On the governance part of the site?

Yes

Diego Molina 8:05 PM

I thought @AutomatedTester was there, it just my mistake :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 8:06 PM

Unofficial draft of the bidi spec: https://w3c.github.io/webdriver-bidi/ There’s a way to go yet

Diego Molina 8:06 PM

ok, I will create a PR to do that (removing @tourdedave)

David Burns 8:06 PM

As retribution for not being on the TLC officially you all owe me cake :cake:

8:06 :P as for the webdriver bidi, as @simonstewart said, there is prose.

8:07

yesterday’s meeting notes are in https://www.w3.org/2020/07/01-webdriver-minutes.html The spec is being driven by Mozilla and Google mostly atm

Diego Molina 8:08 PM

thanks for the updates next topic? Anything new to report from the last PLC/SFC call?

Luke Hill 8:08 PM

I’m just being nosy, nothing to see here.

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:09 PM

Nothing specific from the last PLC/SFC call. We’ve caught up on conference updates, which we will cover shortly.

Diego Molina 8:10 PM

ok, sounds good next topic is: Did anyone talk to Miki about the go bindings?

This topic has been skipped in the previous meetings but it is good to keep it on the agenda so we act on it when we have more bandwidth there is no need to comment or discuss if no one has updates though

Simon Stewart 8:10 PM

Nothing from me

Diego Molina 8:11 PM

ok the next topic is: Pending work that needs to be done for Alpha 7?

Simon Stewart 8:11 PM

I’d really like us to get the new UI in place for alpha 7 Even if it’s just a skeleton

David Burns 8:12 PM

That is in flight now, hope to get a demo on Monday and see what needs to be improved before we move into the repo :tada:

Simon Stewart 8:12 PM

Great news :slightly_smiling_face: Lemme check the project plan

Diego Molina 8:12 PM

I have seen CDP in Python and JS are almost there

David Burns 8:12 PM

we already have some of the parts required in master and the rest are being worked on CDP in python has landed

Simon Stewart 8:13 PM

https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/projects/2

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:13 PM

And GraphQL is nearing completion, I guess.

Simon Stewart 8:13 PM

Things on my list are the new features based on CDP usage Pluggable locators

8:14

And CDP/WebDriver interop (mostly at the element and window level) Those will let us call alpha 7 the final alpha :tada: And we can make a start on the betas as we’ll be feature complete IMO Anything else that folks can think of?

Diego Molina 8:15 PM

nothing else from my side

David Burns 8:15 PM

we do have the beta list at https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3ASelenium-4-Beta

8:16

do we need to move more things there?

Simon Stewart 8:16 PM

Are those “bugs to fix in the betas” or “bugs to fix before we can cut a beta”?

David Burns 8:16 PM or remove yes

Simon Stewart 8:16 PM

Logically correct, but not an actual answer :slightly_smiling_face:

David Burns 8:16 PM

it’s a list of things @diemol thought we needed and I mostly agree

Diego Molina 8:17 PM

they come from the Google Doc we went through in London in February with Simon

Simon Stewart 8:17 PM

I shall ruthlessly reprioritise Those are things that we mostly need in place before release

8:18

But I think we can go into the betas with “the features are there, but they’re known to be unstable” The alphas are “the features aren’t even there yet”

Diego Molina 8:18 PM

I would expect to have a few things being unstable in the betas

Simon Stewart 8:19 PM

“A few things” will definitely be unstable

David Burns 8:19 PM

I would like to get things that may have got sorted but the bug list is out of date sorted as well from our lists

Simon Stewart 8:20 PM

That list seems mostly up to date

David Burns 8:20 PM

but things like Ruby on bazel and ide in the mono repo I dont think are Se4 dependent

Simon Stewart 8:20 PM

I don’t see things that are already fixed in it

David Burns 8:20 PM

my comment was general so people checked :D

Diego Molina 8:20 PM

indeed, I usually keep an eye on the issues, and I believe is up to date btw, we are already covering the next topic in the agenda Pending work that needs to be done for the first Beta? :+1::skin-tone-4:

David Burns 8:21 PM

yes and no… Can we get PRs in flight finished if they are just waiting on reviews on fixing review comments I meant

Simon Stewart 8:22 PM

Which ones in particular?

David Burns 8:22 PM

The draining one and the redis one (not picking on people) come to mind

Simon Stewart 8:22 PM

I’m not happy landing the Redis one since it leaves a broken RedisBackedDistributor in the tree, and that’s suboptimal

8:23

I need to re-review the draining one

David Burns 8:23 PM

I am not saying we need to fix it but we need people to finish them off :)

Simon Stewart 8:23 PM

Indeed.

Diego Molina 8:25 PM

so, is there anything else to add before moving to the next one?

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:25 PM

Selenium IDE work is a separate topic? Unsure if @corevo is here? I meant on the Electron piece of work.

David Burns 8:25 PM

I can field that…

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:25 PM

great!

David Burns 8:26 PM

Selenium IDE is now in the Edge store :tada: that’s the extension version

8:27

As for the electron version, that’s slightly on hold atm but hopefully we can start that up soon :+1::skin-tone-4:

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:27 PM

https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/selenium-ide/ajdpfmkffanmkhejnopjppegokpogffp Link to MS Edge store

David Burns 8:27 PM

I would like it to be a thing as we work on core “fit and finish” pieces

Diego Molina 8:28 PM

sounds good should we move to the next topic?

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:28 PM

yes

Diego Molina 8:28 PM

Conferences. Status for SeConf India & SeConf Chicago?

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:29 PM

SeConf Chicago - Postponed to 2021 - we are working on new dates and Hotels.

8:30

SeConf India - It was supposed to held on June - we’ve moved it to September, but it seems hard and the Indian borders won’t open up for any travels in and out.

8:31

Final decision is yet to be made, it will get postponed or we may have a shortened(online event)

Diego Molina 8:32 PM thanks for the updates :slightly_smiling_face:

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:32 PM

@mmerrell Please fill in, if I’ve missed anything!

Diego Molina 8:32 PM

next topic is: Selenium Conf website in GitHub org? @andrewmkrug did a great job in revamping the site weeks ago, and now the code is in a private repo under the SeleniumHQ GitHub org he’ll add some instructions to the README on how to develop on it and deploy it :clap::skin-tone-4:

8:34

the repo is private just to keep information about future conferences confidential :slightly_smiling_face: next topic: IDE to the main repo?

David Burns 8:35 PM

No change on this. I hope to get to it soon, I have a branch doing the Bazel work

Diego Molina 8:35 PM

ok, sounds good next topic: CoC, next steps?

David Burns 8:36 PM

Last week @diemol and I met with Sage Sharp and had a productive meeting

We have given them a bunch of details and they hoped to get back to use end of this week or beginning of next week with a draft

Diego Molina 8:37 PM

yeah, it was a great session, and I think the CoC is on a good path

Marcus Merrell 8:38 PM

The only conference-related note is that we’re looking at a potential opportunity to host an online-only conference sometime in September/October, but we don’t have details or info on the $$ piece yet

Diego Molina 8:39 PM

thanks @mmerrell

8:40

should we move to the next topic?

David Burns 8:40 PM

regarding online confs I would like people to speak to their respective marketing companies and see if it’s being over done

Marcus Merrell 8:40 PM

that’s my #1 concern

David Burns 8:40 PM

there are so many atm…

Marcus Merrell 8:40 PM

how’s Breakpoint looking, btw?

David Burns 8:41 PM

It’s good so far but I know marketing team don’t really want anything past that

Marcus Merrell 8:41 PM

right… not surprising

David Burns 8:41 PM but that may change

Marcus Merrell 8:42 PM

@simonstewart was talking about potentially having a webinar series instead of a 6-hour block of content, and I’m kind of interested in anything that will keep the zoom fatigue to a minimum

unfortunately, online conferences are not my thing, as an organizer or a participant… this might make me an ideal candidate to create an event that won’t over-do it

David Burns 8:42 PM

heheh

Diego Molina 8:43 PM

ok, seems we can move to the next topic

Selenium Branding guide

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:44 PM

We’ve always get many requests on usage of Selenium Logo for multiple purposes, PLC usually respond to those requests with the help of SFC folks.

And there is also an issue to track : https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/seleniumhq.github.io/issues/81 This has been long pending and finally we’ve started with it…

8:45

Selenium Branding guide is in-progress. Its on a private Google doc shared with the PLC and TLC members. The legal rep from the SFC team has reviewed and shared feedback and recommendations. And right now its with our Selenium team (PLC, TLC(may not be all of TLC) to look at it and see if we need more clarifications.

8:46

@simonstewart @diemol @AutomatedTester and others When you get a moment, pls take a look and share your feedback

Diego Molina 8:47 PM

I think it makes sense to have something like that, it is easy to see the Selenium logo / name misused in many places

that’s a good initiative @manoj9788!

David Burns 8:47 PM

What does this mean when people use our brand incorrectly. Like there is a linkedin group that charges for people making specific posts there.

8:48

(from what I am told) do we have recourse to challenge them?

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:49 PM

That reminds of another questions,What are social media accounts that are handled by SeleniumHQ team?

Marcus Merrell 8:49 PM

using it to promote “Selenium Certification” is the example I see most often I believe we’ve done it before (before I joined the PLC) “done it” == “challenged them”

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:50 PM

AFAIK, Twitter: SeleniumHQ, SeleniumConference are handled by SeleniumHQ team. LinkedIn: Is there one? Facebook: I think there is one, but don’t think anyone from SeleniumHQ team is handling that.

Marcus Merrell 8:51 PM

we should hire a tween to manage our insta (and TikTok) only half-kidding

Diego Molina 8:51 PM

there is this https://www.linkedin.com/company/selenium/about/ and this https://www.linkedin.com/company/selenium/about/

Marcus Merrell 8:51 PM

especially considering how many tweens use Selenium to do fortnite/roblox stuff

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:51 PM

TikTok is officially banned in India :slightly_smiling_face:

Marcus Merrell 8:51 PM

lol

Diego Molina 8:52 PM

sorry, the 2nd link was meant to be this one https://www.linkedin.com/groups/961927/ (edited)

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:52 PM

ok, no politics here. No idea, who owns that.

Diego Molina 8:54 PM

I feel this topic overlaps with the last one in the agenda: Selenium marketing strategy (e.g: Webpack)

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:55 PM

Diego you could share some insights on the example you gave on Webpack

Diego Molina 8:56 PM

yeah, I was trying to find some info while Googling

8:57

the idea I heard, is that webpack was not having a good moment in terms of users and reputation and revamping their image (docs, social media, and of course improving the project code) helped them enormously so this point is just to have a conversation starter and see if you think something similar makes sense for Selenium

Simon Stewart 8:58 PM

It’s useful. I think we should also take a look at the things that people like about Cypress and make it clear how to surface the same thing in Selenium :+1::skin-tone-4:

Manoj Kumar Kumar 8:59 PM

Agreed! I think it makes sense @diemol

David Burns 8:59 PM

I would love for us to do something here. @simonstewart and I have previously discussed this as “fit and finish”

9:00

these are the things that people like about puppeteer/cypress and we’ve not done a good job of explaining similar things

Simon Stewart 9:01 PM

Indeed. TBH, I thought we’d be done with Se4 at this point And well into the fit-and-finish bit that could be Se5 But I agree with @diemol that part of that is a nice site with excellent docs

Diego Molina 9:02 PM

nice, so it seems there is a general feeling that we should be doing something like that I can try to do something about it and give an update for the next meeting

Simon Stewart 9:02 PM

Just one piece isn’t good enough to solve the problems That’d be fantastic, @diemol

Manoj Kumar Kumar 9:02 PM

Happy to pair on that @diemol

Diego Molina 9:02 PM

sounds good!

9:03

well, that was the last topic in the agenda, and we are 3 minutes past the end of the meeting thank you everyone!

David Burns 9:03 PM

yay

Manoj Kumar Kumar 9:03 PM

And we’ve moved from Master to Trunk Thanks @AutomatedTester

David Burns 9:03 PM

yes, and it was an important move

Manoj Kumar Kumar 9:04 PM

Thanks @diemol @simonstewart @AutomatedTester and everyone!

Blog: How Selenium Works: Episode 1 - Transportation

Wed, 10 Jun 2020 00:00:00 +0000

After an interaction on the last weekend of January 2020, on a Selenium Issue where someone said “why can’t you just…” after I explained the issue I thought that I would start explaining commands in Selenium WebDriver and why we landed on the design that we have today.

I will repeat this on every page of the series but a lot, an annoying amount sometimes, of thinking goes into how every little bit of Selenium works.

Why?

Selenium, by chance and being good at what it does, is used by millions of people around the world as well. It’s how companies from Microsoft and Google to the small startup make sure that their site works in every browser.

How Does Selenium talk to the browser?

Selenium, over the years, decided that we were going to use HTTP to speak to the browser. We built a REST-ish API that every client binding could use and hopefully get the same results.

HTTP and REST-ish? Really?

Yea…

Let’s start with the HTTP part. When we started we had to have a unique way to speak for each browser based on the best way to speak to them. So for Internet Explorer we wrote COM code. It was fine, it worked but gave us nightmares. For Firefox we wrote a monstrocity that read line by line and, thankfully, due to Mozilla’s “make the browser yours” attitude we could do a lot. Opera allowed us to go in via the DevTools protocol.

Now, it meant that, especially in the early days of WebDriver, we would need to maintain N: M bindings where N is the language bindings and M is the browsers we support. This is not a road to a good product. We decided that we need something that every language would understand. We also needed something that would be pretty robust. HTTP was chosen and we set about building the JSONWireProtocol.

The JSONWireProtocol is where we built a REST-ish interface that would speak JSON. I say REST-ish because it didn’t follow all the principles of REST but enough to make it powerful for our needs.

How does it relate to things now?

The Web, the internet, and the world has moved on. Why hasn’t Selenium?

This is a good question and the thing is we are trying to move things on. Unfortunately the web has a state where it is broken unless it is working. HTTP is pretty robust as a protocol. It can also allow people to build up clusters for testing without having to worry too much about how the multiplexing would work. This is the reason why Selenium Grid was created and is still a pretty good choice when it comes to farming out your testing to multiple devices and multiple machines.

But Some automation Framework that uses Chrome Debug Protocol is more like the web, be like them.

So… There are tools that use Chrome’s Debug Protocol to drive the browser and some of the things they do better than Selenium are down to their choice of how they speak to the speak to the browser. Unfortunately it’s a Chrome proprietary protocol and Google is not interested in working with other browsers on making it not.

Also, ignoring the interesting design choices from the the Google team, there is the problem that we have to have a permenantly open connection. In this case it uses WebSockets but if you remember my comment earlier about the internet is down until it’s up. WebSockets would be constantly re-establishing the connection. There is also the problem of how much traffic would be going up and down that pipe.

This is fine for puppeteer where you are only speaking to something on your local machine but if you are combining a CI service, like Circle CI or TravisCI and something like AWS Device Farm, Sauce Labs, or BrowserStack you suddenly have a lot of internet inbetween you and your runner and that data needs to get somewhere.

The W3C Browser Testing and Tools Working group, which is made up of browser vendors and Selenium folk, are trying to design what this will look like to make sure that we can make it cross browser from the start without having to do weird hacky patches to browsers and ship those browsers ourselves.

Want to read more?

WebDriver Specification details about transport

This was originally posted to https://www.theautomatedtester.co.uk/

Blog: Public Project Meeting - June 04, 2020

Thu, 04 Jun 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on June 04, 2020 (times are on IST).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on June 18, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.

Diego Molina 8:05 PM

the agenda will be:

anything people want to add in the next 2 minutes
me looking to previous agendas and adding those items here

Simon Stewart 8:06 PM

Hahaha

Agenda item: path to betas

8:07 I’d like to hear about the work that @AutomatedTester has in mind for his interns, and how (as a project) we’ll support them

Diego Molina 8:08 PM

Agenda:

general project statistics
any overall announcements? new people on committees, have the commit bit, etc?
so do we want/need to wait for that work to be done before doing Alpha 7?
Work to be done before beta? (Path to betas)
when is the next SFC call? (if its happened in the last two weeks, anything to report)
Did anyone pick up the ball to talk to Miki about the go bindings?
SeConf India SeConf Chicago
Selenium Conf website in GitHub org?
IDE to main repo?
CoC

Let’s start

8:09 general project statistics: two weeks ago: 391 open issues, open pull request: 68 now: 343 open issues, open pull request: 72

8:10 looking better, let’s keep the pace! 1

next item:; any overall announcements? new people on committees, have the commit bit, etc?

Simon Stewart 8:11 PM

Just a quick note that @Bongosway has landed a few patches recently. I’m hoping that we find a way to help him into the fold a little more

And a high five to @rajendra for his work on the JDBC stuff 1 reply 4 days ago View thread

Diego Molina 8:12 PM

absolutely, thanks for contributing!

anything else or should we move to the next item in the agenda?

8:13 ok, next item: what do we need to be done before doing Alpha 7?

Simon Stewart 8:15 PM

Things I’d like to see:

Switch to the reactor client for http
Land a basic replacement for the UI
Straw-man proposals for the functionality that might rely on CDP

Of which that last is in my court

David Burns 8:16 PM

I am working on

as for my interns, one of which in here so say hi to @Saksham Gupta

Simon Stewart 8:17 PM

waves to @Saksham Gupta! 1

David Burns 8:17 PM

They will be extending the GraphQL system with in grid (@Saksham Gupta )

and Phani, when he joins, will be building out the Grid UI and modernising it

Diego Molina 8:18 PM

that sounds great!

Marcus Merrell 8:18 PM

welcome, @Saksham Gupta! 1

David Burns 8:18 PM

The goal of the work is to add most, if not all, the features we want in this area

8:19

both @Saksham Gupta and Phani will be supported by me and @rajendra

8:20

and next week we have another member joining our team who we can get to support both interns to make sure we don’t have any performance hits with the work they add and guide them through perf profiling. etc

Simon Stewart 8:20 PM

@Saksham Gupta you might find this useful: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aFMmmMhBg1PgfTPmyaXaEJAhsh0lf3p0VpV7kfHIstI/edit

Diego Molina 8:20 PM

anything else pending from the non-Java stuff?

I know CDP is not working with JS yet, not sure about Python

David Burns 8:20 PM

Non-java we need to add CDP to python and JS which my team will be doing

Simon Stewart 8:21 PM

One thing i’m keen on is steering users away from raw CDP

David Burns 8:21 PM

agreed

Simon Stewart 8:21 PM

When we get WebDriver BiDi in place, we’d like to use that where possible

CDP is ugly, hard to use, and deeply fragile

Diego Molina 8:22 PM

that is a good point, because we don’t want GitHub issues reporting bugs merely due to something failing in CDP

Simon Stewart 8:23 PM

Something will fail with the CDP stuff

I may have to version it independently of the rest of the java pieces.

Diego Molina 8:23 PM

is the idea to have CDP in JS and Python for Alpha 7?

Marcus Merrell 8:23 PM

has the chromium team talked at all about CDP becoming a standard, or publishing a roadmap? (I’m off to put this exact question into google)

Simon Stewart 8:24 PM

They’re involved with the webdriver bidi stuff

I think there’s a lot of value separating “automation” from “debugging APIs”

Marcus Merrell 8:24 PM

yeah

David Burns 8:24 PM

the spec is being worked on right now

I have been reviewing it this week

Marcus Merrell 8:24 PM

I saw the transcript from last week, good stuff

David Burns 8:25 PM

CDP is not going to be the standard

Diego Molina 8:25 PM

asking again to stay in the topic, is the idea to have CDP in JS and Python for Alpha 7?

Simon Stewart 8:25 PM

Yes

David Burns 8:25 PM

@diemol maybe.. hopefully

Simon Stewart 8:25 PM

We need all languages to have that in place before we can move to betas

Diego Molina 8:27 PM

I have seen a few PRs from https://github.com/seanpoulter, he seems keen to help in JS he already asked how he can implement relative locators in JS we should try to give him quick feedback

Sean Poulter Location Ottawa, Canada Repositories 22 Followers 17 @seanpoulter | Oct 18th, 2012 | Added by GitHub

Simon Stewart 8:28 PM

@harsha509 would you like to help with that? Or @corevo?

And

David Burns 8:28 PM

JS relative locators is in there, might need some TLC

Sri Harsha 8:28 PM

i need a week to hack into js things. currently busy in paid work

Simon Stewart 8:28 PM

NP.

8:29 These paid jobs are what allow us to have the luxury of working on OSS. Focusing on them makes a lot of sense

Diego Molina 8:29 PM

in any case, let’s try to give feedback, we are in the look for JS maintainers and who knows if he could be “the one”

ok, next item?

Simon Stewart 8:30 PM

Have we finished the beta discussion?

I don’t think we’ve got more items to add to it

Diego Molina 8:31 PM

no, that is next

Work to be done before beta? (Path to betas)

Simon Stewart 8:31 PM

The things for alpha-7 are the blockers for beta

8:32 After that, I think the changes are incremental rather than entirely new features

8:33 (other than (maybe) pluggable locators0

Marcus Merrell 8:33 PM

also my “drain” feature

I’m negotiating a couple days with my paid work to get back on that

Simon Stewart 8:33 PM

That’d be nice to get into a7

I suspect that the graphql stuff will cause some changes to have to happen

Marcus Merrell 8:33 PM

can we set up a time to pair for an hour or so?

Sri Harsha 8:33 PM

I will take over maintaining JS bindings for sure in future

Simon Stewart 8:33 PM

@mmerrell sure

8:34 I’m around monday and tuesday next week

@harsha509 WOOHOO!

That’d be awesome

Marcus Merrell 8:34 PM

perfect–I’ve just blocked out most of the day for it

I know what I need to do, but would like a bit of validation on the approach, and then I need to test it

Diego Molina 8:36 PM

ok, seems the betas part has been mostly discussed in the Alpha 7 part and these previous lines

if everyone is ok with it, next topic 2

when is the next SFC call? (if its happened in the last two weeks, anything to report)

Marcus Merrell 8:36 PM

it happened Tuesday, and I believe we primarily discussed the conference

Diego Molina 8:38 PM

ah perfect, there is an item in the agenda for “SeConf India SeConf Chicago”

Simon Stewart 8:38 PM

@manoj9788 will know the most about that

Marcus Merrell 8:40 PM

yep

Diego Molina 8:40 PM

is there something else to comment from SFC or conferences? or should we move to the next item?

Marcus Merrell 8:40 PM

I can speak for Chicago

I don’t think we talked about anything else… the SFC wasn’t present on the call

Diego Molina 8:41 PM

would you like to say something about the Chicago conference?'

Marcus Merrell 8:41 PM

yeah–we’re negotiating with the hotel to take our contract and move it to 2021, around the same time of year

8:42

we’re waiting to hear back from them with a selection of dates in the Sep-Oct-Nov range

hoping not to have it the week before Thanksgiving, but also hoping to keep the room rates low

8:43

as to this year, we’re talking about holding a very sane, relatively small virtual conference, or a series of webinars spread over a couple months

we’re also discussing having another group help us out with planning and execution, someone with experience at promoting and running virtual conferences

8:44

the first discussion will happen today, and if we decide to explore further, I will probably feel more comfortable talking about who we’re considering

there is a lot to consider for a virtual conference, and we want to make sure we are thoughtful and careful

Rajendra Kadam 8:44 PM

replied to a thread: And a high five to @rajendra for his work on the JDBC stuff Thanks @simonstewart. . It wouldn’t have been complete without your help. 1

Diego Molina 8:44 PM

all that is already a lot of info, thanks for sharing!

Marcus Merrell 8:45 PM

for SeConf India, I don’t know if @manoj9788 is on and would like to share. If not, I can at least say a little about what they’re considering, I just don’t want it to be incomplete

Diego Molina 8:46 PM

up to you I would say

Marcus Merrell 8:48 PM

it appears that there’s no way they’re going to be able to put on a conference in September in Bangalore. The borders and COVID caseload aren’t adequately under control, and much like the US conference, there are too many variables that would need to be under control right now for Naresh to feel confident about having an in-person conference a scant 3 months from now 1

(by “borders” I mean “international travel & quarantine procedures”)

Diego Molina 8:48 PM

that makes a lot of sense

Marcus Merrell 8:50 PM

so we are discussing whether or not we can essentially combine the notion of a virtual conference. That troubles me because I know that all parties involved want to see revenue, but the Selenium project doesn’t want to charge for admission. I’m concerned there would be too many hands in the pot for any one of them to receive enough $$ to make it worth their while

but that’s my own concern–not meant to represent the opinion of the planning committee. We’re looking for data, not opinions–so we’re reaching out to people who have been through this in recent weeks to find out what’s possible

8:51 we hope to report in a couple weeks on any progress, both with planning the virtual conference, and with whether or not we can expect to fund our coffers in the near future

Diego Molina 8:51 PM

ok, then we can follow up in the next meeting, thanks! 1

8:52 next topic: Did anyone pick up the ball to talk to Miki about the go bindings?

Simon Stewart 8:52 PM

Not me

Diego Molina 8:52 PM

I think no one did but we should keep the topic around, and try to get to it when we have Se 4 released or close to be released

8:53 adding one more binding now would be too distracting which does not mean that we cannot reach out to him

Simon Stewart 8:54 PM

Agreed

Diego Molina 8:55 PM

ok, let’s move to the next one since we only have a few minutes left

Selenium Conf website in GitHub org?

I see the site was revamped, so great job @andrewmkrug

8:56 but I am not sure if @andrewmkrug is having problems to push the code to the org I can reach out to him

Simon Stewart 8:56 PM

Thank you 1

Diego Molina 8:56 PM

next topic: IDE to main repo?

8:57

I guess we should focus more on the bindings and the Grid for now?

Simon Stewart 8:58 PM

I think @AutomatedTester has already done a chunk of the heavy lifting

9:00

Got to go. Meeting time

Diego Molina 9:00 PM

last topic was CoC, but we can take it next time

well, we covered everything (almost), thank you everyone! 1

Marcus Merrell 9:01 PM

thank YOU, @diemol 1

Blog: Public Project Meeting - May 07, 2020

Sat, 09 May 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on May 07, 2020 (times are on IST).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on May 21, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.

adamgoucher 8:00 PM

alright. welcome back. time for another fortnightly chat about the project.

Simon Stewart 8:01 PM

:wave:

Diego Molina 8:01 PM

:wave:

Sri Harsha 8:01 PM

:wave:

adamgoucher 8:02 PM

some general project statistics; open issues: 391 open pull request: 68 (which is the lowest i think ive seen either of those numbers before)

8:03

agenda wise, this is going to be more loosey-goosey than normal as i’m swamped with day job so ignoring things. we’ll see is that is a good thing or not.

8:03

any overall announcements? new people on committees, have the commit bit, etc?

Simon Stewart 8:04 PM

I’ve landed the update to OpenTracing, which unblocks me

8:04

Next step is to wire the tracing into the Docker support And then pick up the websocket forwarding

8:05

(Which, to be fair, is “mostly done”)

adamgoucher 8:05 PM

heh. the last 20% takes the other 80% of the time :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 8:05 PM

The Pareto Principle in action

8:06

I’d be happy pushing a6 before the next meeting

adamgoucher 8:06 PM

what do we think is missing from a6 now?

Simon Stewart 8:06 PM

It’s been a while since we did a release, and there’s progress in there

8:07

I’d dearly love the websocket forwarding, but I can live without it @diemol landed the first work with Fail Safe for some more robustness in the Grid

8:08

I think @barancev is also making some progress switching the underlying HTTP engine again

adamgoucher 8:08 PM

looks like there was a bunch of plumbing / dependencies updated in the last week especially with .net and python

Simon Stewart 8:08 PM

@jimevans and @AutomatedTester know more than I do

Jim Evans 8:10 PM

yes, the .NET bindings build using bazel should now work cross-platform. you should be able to run .NET tests using bazel test (with caveats, which i’ve yet to fully document). it kinda works within VS code, but one can for certain develop using Visual Studio 2019 on Windows, and Visual Studio for Mac on MacOS.

adamgoucher 8:11 PM (still breaks my head to write .net code on mac)

8:11

what more was needed for the http engine stuff? i thought there was a flag in there already?

8:12

or did we change it again, again

Simon Stewart 8:13 PM

The underlying library didn’t support http/2 or unix domain sockets, despite it being possible

adamgoucher 8:14 PM

so do we want/need to wait for that work to be done-ish before doing a6? so far that sounds like the only thing that will be confusing to release partially implemented

Simon Stewart 8:14 PM

Nah.

adamgoucher 8:15 PM

scans commits in another window

Simon Stewart 8:15 PM

As long as it’s in before we start on the betas, we’ll be fine

adamgoucher 8:15 PM

a question i know we dont have an answer for, but do we have a gut feel for how many more a’s there are before we start the b’s?

Simon Stewart 8:16 PM

The major outstanding features are: websocket forwarding graph-ql support

adamgoucher 8:16 PM

thats not that horrid of a list. its been much worse

Simon Stewart 8:17 PM

We’ve been chipping away at it

adamgoucher 8:18 PM

so if a6 is within the next 2 weeks, do we have a trigger condition for releasing it?

Simon Stewart 8:18 PM

No trigger condition

8:18

Other than “someone updates the changelog”, I guess

adamgoucher 8:19 PM

do we want to say ‘a6 is next tuesday’ so that all the maintainers are ready to build and tag everything? (feel like we can’t magically do it all from ci but could be making that up)

Simon Stewart 8:20 PM

The graphql piece is to support the ui, so strictly speaking we don’t really need it, but it keeps things flexible

8:20

@AutomatedTester, @p0deje, @jimevans, @titusfortner, @harsha509 Cool with shipping an alpha next week?

Jim Evans 8:21 PM

+1 from me.

Sri Harsha 8:21 PM

Yes

Diego Molina 8:22 PM

how are we handling the numbers in JS, JS is already in a7, right?

Simon Stewart 8:22 PM

“alpha-n+1”

Sri Harsha 8:22 PM

Yes @diemol . Do you have any suggestions @corevo . He should be releasing the next alpha as i know.

Alex Rodionov 8:23 PM

+1 from me

Tomer Steinfeld 8:25 PM

JS has been in alpha for a long time because of historical reasons

adamgoucher 8:25 PM

ok. so thats covers the bulk of the pressing tech stuff. other stuff that could be discussed; when is the next sfc call? (if its happened in the last two weeks, anything to report) did anyone pick up the ball to talk to miki about the go bindings? seconf india seconf us state of the se-ide into the main repo

Tomer Steinfeld 8:25 PM

I think we can land stable 4.0 together, but I don’t see a reason we should release 4 alphas together

adamgoucher 8:26 PM

(or we can keep talking about js too. but that list is just my remaining things)

Marcus Merrell 8:26 PM

the PLC call happened on Tuesday, it was just me and Jim. We mostly talked about conferences, and we were going to follow up with Simon about the status of the Code of Conduct

Simon Stewart 8:27 PM

Uhh… I thought @AutomatedTester was running with the CoC stuff.

Marcus Merrell 8:27 PM

at this point India is still slated to happen in September, same venue. I don’t know the latest about speakers or progress or anything like that

Simon Stewart 8:27 PM

It’s entirely possible I am mistaken

adamgoucher 8:27 PM

i thought david was on that too

Tomer Steinfeld 8:27 PM

Is there an update from the SFC about the MS store?

Marcus Merrell 8:28 PM

ok, I thought David was on the MS Store issue, and not the CoC, but it wouldn’t be the first time I was mistaken

Diego Molina 8:28 PM

why don’t we take the CoC draft we have, add it to the new site, and iterate on it?

Simon Stewart 8:28 PM

We were going to get a review and some guidance from Sage Sharp

Marcus Merrell 8:29 PM

for Chicago, we’ve got a verbal understanding that the venue will allow us to reschedule the conference for sometime next year with no fees. We’ve already given them a somewhat hefty deposit, and while we could likely fight to get that back, we’d rather just have it next April or October–we’re going to make that decision in late May/early June

Diego Molina 8:30 PM

for the SeleniumConf website, @andrewmkrug has joined the Selenium GitHub org, and he is helping us to push the site code to a private repo

Marcus Merrell 8:30 PM

for the Fall, we’re considering an online-only conference, and we’re waiting for a few pieces of data to come in over the next couple weeks, around TestBash and SauceCon, to gauge how they went, ideas for optimization, pros/cons, do’s don’t’s, etc

Andrew Krug 8:30 PM

was added to #selenium-tlc by Diego Molina.

Marcus Merrell 8:32 PM

I spoke to Deb (from SFC) quite a bit on Friday about tips and pointers for an online-only conference, and I’ve started to develop some opinions for how it should be done. I haven’t yet, however, come up with a firm position on the pricing model for sponsors or attendees–I definitely want to offer all the track sessions/keynotes for free, and offer a paid tier for “something” else, like if people want T-shirts or something else, but it would likely be a model where they pay what they want (to support the project), and the swag they get depends on the tier they buy into

8:33

I’m waiting to hear more from Richard Bradshaw before beginning that discussion, probably during our bi-weekly Conference conference call, on May 28th

adamgoucher 8:35 PM

so. CoC — when can we get the review and guidance? if its more than ‘not in may’ we should likely throw it up and start the iteration process

Simon Stewart 8:36 PM

It depends on Sage’s availability, and that of the people working on the CoC

adamgoucher 8:37 PM

(which, sounds like we’re not quite sure of who those are from our end)

Simon Stewart 8:37 PM

Last I checked, @mmerrell, @AutomatedTester, @diemol, @jimevans and I were all interested in being involved

8:38

From memory.

adamgoucher 8:38 PM

so the nebulous items seem to be; determine who is actually on the coc stuff

Simon Stewart 8:38 PM

Agreed

adamgoucher 8:38 PM

doh! no editing. and, determine who is actually doing the ms store stuff

8:40

which means, for the next meeting;

release a6 (a7 of js)
report who is point and who is assisting with the CoC
report who is leading the ms store stuff

8:41

anyone else have anything they want / need to discuss in public?

Simon Stewart 8:41 PM

I’m good

8:41

Though perhaps we should figure out who owns what on that list I hold the build bacon this time

Diego Molina 8:42 PM

maybe we can record how a release is done? and from that I can write docs

Simon Stewart 8:43 PM

I’ll walk you through the process We did have it written up here: https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/wiki/Releasing-Selenium

adamgoucher 8:43 PM

from the april 23 meeting, looks like @AutomatedTester is the store person Screen Shot 2020-05-07 at 11.12.57 AM.png Screen Shot 2020-05-07 at 11.12.57 AM.png

David Burns 2 days ago

I am waiting on replies from SFC. I chased up yesterday. Have meeting with MS next week

adamgoucher 8:45 PM

anyone volunteering for CoC lead?

Diego Molina 8:46 PM

ah nice, the release process is written, we “just” need to update it

Simon Stewart 8:46 PM

The java one doesn’t seem wildly inaccurate

adamgoucher 8:48 PM

which means, for the next meeting;

release a6 (a7 of js) – simon
report who is point and who is assisting with the CoC – tbd
report who is leading the ms store stuff - david?

Alexei Barantsev 8:49 PM

sorry to be late, I’m +1 for the next alpha

adamgoucher 8:50 PM

so if there isnt anything else, i say we call this thing done and do it all again in a fortnight.

8:52

slack says no one is furiously typing so, see all y’all in two weeks. as ever, if there is something you want discussed, message me directly or just drop it here for us to pickup

Diego Molina 8:53 PM

thank you @adamgoucher!

Simon Stewart 8:54 PM

Thanks, @adamgoucher!

David Burns 9:24 PM

Argh… missed it again!!!

9:28

For CoC, I keep dropping the ball on this one. I have been busy with work but hopefully can do something in the next two weeks

Blog: Public Project Meeting - April 23, 2020

Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on April 23, 2020 (times are on CET).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on May 7, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.

Diego Molina 4:32 PM

Hi all, we are going to start the next project status meeting in a moment

for now, the agenda would be:

project stats: +/- issues, prs
any staffing announcements
whats been worked on (seems things are picking up again)
whats next
when do we plan the next release
SeleniumConf status (for India and Chicago), and its website

Simon Stewart 4:32 PM

Does someone want to announce it on the main #selenium channel too?

Diego Molina 4:33 PM

I can do that

Simon Stewart 4:33 PM

Thanks

Diego Molina 4:34 PM

before we start, does anyone want to add a topic?

4:36

maybe we can also discuss the Go bindings again

but I will take that silence as a “no more topics”

First topic, project stats: +/- issues, prs…

Simon Stewart 4:37 PM

@AutomatedTester probably knows those

Diego Molina 4:37 PM

Since a few weeks we are under 65 PRs and 400 issues, we made progress but not as significant as in the previous weeks

I am looking at a couple of OSS projects that build a dashboard so we have a better overview

Simon Stewart 4:38 PM

It’s the law of diminishing returns. We’re starting to hit actual issues and things that need thinking about

Diego Molina 4:41 PM

I experimented during the weekend with https://chaoss.github.io/grimoirelab/ and https://github.com/cncf/devstats, I liked the first one more, but we need to find a place where to deploy it for free Recently I bumped into https://github.com/google/triage-party, which could be also a good one to have an overview (edited)

4:42

all this in the spirit of having a clear project status for everyone

I can try to have something working for the next meeting, does anyone have more comments or should we move to the next topic?

Simon Stewart 4:42 PM

No comments from me

Diego Molina 4:43 PM

next topic: any staffing announcements, what did you mean by this @adamgoucher?

Simon Stewart 4:43 PM

@harsha509 has joined the team :slightly_smiling_face:

adamgoucher 4:43 PM

anyone get the commit bit, step away from a committee, etc.

Diego Molina 4:44 PM

well, @tourdedave mentioned he does not have the bandwidth to be in the TLC (which is my fault because I added him without asking, in the spirit of having someone from the IDE)

4:45

we could just leave it as it is or ask around if someone is interested?

Simon Stewart 4:45 PM

Having a strong owner for the IDE would be really helpful

Marcus Merrell 4:47 PM

I’m afraid unless he or Tomer change their mind, I’m not sure anyone exists who could fit the bill

we maintain really strong contacts with Dave.. that might have to be good enough for now

Diego Molina 4:48 PM

the TLC has no size limit, so things could continue as they are, right?

Simon Stewart 4:49 PM

They could

And it sounds a bit unfair to continue to lean on @tourdedave after he’s stepped away

Diego Molina 4:51 PM

what the IDE needs for now is support from the PLC, since Microsoft wants to help with having the extension on Edge (new), but I think @AutomatedTester asked to be introduced to them, not sure what the status is there

support as in, sort out legal stuff for creating an account on the MS store

Simon Stewart 4:52 PM

That won’t be hard. Someone needs to message the selenium@conservancy.org

Tomer Steinfeld 4:52 PM

I introduced @AutomatedTester I think the next step is to have someone from the SFC create an account

To do that we need PLC stamp

So that the SFC will do it

Simon Stewart 4:52 PM

@mmerrell want to run with that, or shall we ask @AutomatedTester to do it?

Titus Fortner 4:52 PM

What does that give the project though, if it isn’t the electron implementation?

Marcus Merrell 4:52 PM

I can run with it

Simon Stewart 4:52 PM

I’m happy with @AutomatedTester on point here :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 4:52 PM

Not saying we should ever turn down help

Just curious

Marcus Merrell 4:53 PM

He might have better contacts than me

Simon Stewart 4:53 PM

@titusfortner support on Edge, and maybe someone from MS will step into the gap

Diego Molina 4:53 PM

to have the IDE working on the new Edge

Simon Stewart 4:53 PM

And also, and this is important, IDE working on Edge (as @diemol says)

Titus Fortner 4:55 PM

I thought all chromium apps worked already. I should actually use it :)

Diego Molina 4:55 PM

could we leave as an action item to have @mmerrell (since he is in the PLC) chat with @AutomatedTester in case David needs help with the PLC? and have a status for the next meeting?

Simon Stewart 4:56 PM

Sure

Diego Molina 4:57 PM

you ok with that @mmerrell?

while he answers, should we move slowly to the next topic?

Marcus Merrell 5:00 PM

yeah, I’m ok with that

Diego Molina 5:00 PM

next topic, whats been worked on (seems things are picking up again)

Simon Stewart 5:00 PM

I’ve some diffs lined up

5:01

Streamlining how we manage cli flags and configuration, so that things included on the ClassPath get picked up too
WebSocket proxying
A patch that I started at SeConf (I know) to get relative locators working a little more nicely
I also have experimental support for pinning browser versions (and their drivers) in the bazel build, which resolves some issues that folks may have

When I get some bandwidth, landing those would be nice

After that, I’ll dig into the .Net stuff now that @jimevans has it working on macOS and see whether there’s some jiggery-pokery with select we can do so that bazel test //… will work the way we expect it to

Oh, I’ve also started wrapping OpenTelemetry with our own APIs so we do an update without too much chaos

0.2.0 -> 0.3.0 is messy

Diego Molina 5:04 PM

From my side:

Docker images working with the Grid 4 Alpha 5, only supporting standalone and hub/node for now
Working on adding support for retries in the Grid, issue #8167
Also, added tags and categories to the blog in selenium.dev, so now all governance related meetings can be seen at https://www.selenium.dev/categories/governance/

Marcus Merrell 5:04 PM

ditto me for the “quiesce” feature, in terms of “working since SeConf” and “when I get some bandwidth”

Jim Evans 5:05 PM

@simonstewart let me know what you’d like to see here in terms of .NET.

Marcus Merrell 5:05 PM

the bulk of it is complete, still do to:

actually spin down the nodes

5:05

write unit tests

Simon Stewart 5:06 PM

I’ve still been pondering on how we make it possible to spin the grid up in an ad-hoc order

And I keep coming back to the fact that life would be easier if we had a backbone of a “message bus”, a “key/value store”, and a “service registry”

We definitely have the message bus already

And the session-map is perilously close to being a key/value store

Diego Molina 5:07 PM

conceptually I wanted to cover that in the support for retries issue, because we cannot expect the docker containers to start always in the same order

Simon Stewart 5:07 PM

Right

Regularly has support for a successful retry and an unsuccessful retry

But we can’t build everything on that :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 5:08 PM

I want to tackle that first, so at some point containers can be used in other envs

between https://jodah.net/failsafe/fallback/ and https://github.com/resilience4j/resilience4j I am liking more the first one (edited)

Simon Stewart 5:08 PM

You’re writing the code, and I like both of them :slightly_smiling_face:

5:09

Fallback is also used by an alternative netty-based http client

We may need to switch from AsynHttpClient because it doesn’t support http2 (or unix domain sockets)

5:10

I’ve been looking at io.projectreactor.netty:reactor-netty:0.9.6.RELEASE and I think @barancev may have some code

Or he may not :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 5:10 PM

I guess we can come back to that when some written code from my side actually works :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 5:11 PM

Well, it means that looking at failsafe fallback is a better bet

Which leans into your preference

So it’s more a datapoint than anything else

Diego Molina 5:12 PM

sounds good

ok, should we move to the next topic, so we can hopefully finish on time

Simon Stewart 5:12 PM

SGTM

Diego Molina 5:12 PM

next topic is, what’s next & when do we plan the next release

Simon Stewart 5:12 PM

Next release? I’d like a banner feature in. WebSockets and CDP across the Grid would be it, for me

5:13

Or we can just ship what we have

Marcus Merrell 5:13 PM

that would be amazing

Simon Stewart 5:13 PM

It’s a SMOP

Simple Matter of Programming

Diego Molina 5:13 PM

we have 267 commits after the alpha 5 release, sounds like there could be something we can release?

Simon Stewart 5:13 PM

So I think the choice we have to make is “timed releases” or “feature releases”

Marcus Merrell 5:14 PM

I thought SMOP might be “Simple Matter of Pfantasy”

Simon Stewart 5:14 PM

git log selenium-4.0.0-alpha-5..HEAD --oneline java

5:15

HA! 098eb99991

5:15

We landed support for configs via TOML….

Diego Molina 5:16 PM

true, what if we try to have the retries thing, docs for toml, and maybe have a release before the next status meeting?

Simon Stewart 5:16 PM

Looks like lots of little fixes

DOCS?

:wink:

I can write an info section for configuration

Diego Molina 5:17 PM

that is what I was thinking

Simon Stewart 5:17 PM

File an issue and assign it to me

(At some point, I need to do my day job)

Diego Molina 5:17 PM

before the beta some of us need to make those docs a bit nicer for Se4

5:18

I will do that then

Simon Stewart 5:18 PM

Thank you

Shall we mark some issues as “4.0a6”?

Diego Molina 5:19 PM

Maybe it is too much, not sure

Marcus Merrell 5:19 PM

my offer still stands to help with issue hygiene, I just need permissions

Simon Stewart 5:19 PM

Or, perhaps, let’s work on our features, and next meeting ship 4.0a6 regardless of where we are

@mmerrell I’ll fix that up for you now

And @harsha509 too

Sri Harsha 5:20 PM Js bindings is already at alpha7. We can try to implement relative locators(which is pending in JS bindings) and release in next meeting.

Simon Stewart 5:21 PM

That’d be great

Thank you

Diego Molina 5:21 PM

issue for TOML https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/8232

Simon Stewart 5:22 PM

Thank you

Diego Molina 5:22 PM

ok, two topics left

first is, SeleniumConf status (for India and Chicago), and its website

Marcus Merrell 5:23 PM

I’ll see if I can get a website update from Bill McGee now that it’s a bit later on the west coast

Diego Molina 5:23 PM

so India will happen (:crossed_fingers: ) in September, and Chicago in November, does anyone know any news related to that?

Simon Stewart 5:24 PM

@mmerrell you should have an invitation from GH to join the SeleniumHQ org. Am slightly surprised you’re not a member already :slightly_smiling_face:

Marcus Merrell 5:26 PM

the conference status is currently:

We’re waiting until around May 15th to make a decision, but
While we believe the conference could happen in November, it’s Bill McGee’s observation that people right now just don’t seem to be interested in buying tickets, submitting papers, or writing checks to sponsor in-person conferences right now
Given that we’re having trouble motivating people to take the actions they need to take now (the previous point), it’s hard to imagine how we can feel confident in a November conference in the near future
What I’m saying is that, things in the community need to happen in May in order to hold a conference in November, and I don’t have even the barest hint that those things will happen

so, at this point we believe we will be able to recover most/all funds from the Holiday Inn, based on Sauce’s experience with the Fairmont in Austin, and TestBash’s experience in Detroit

5:27

but we’re going to wait a few more weeks, a) because we can, and b) in case there’s some kind of earth-shattering news that comes out that changes the picture

Simon Stewart 5:27 PM

The UK has been told that social distancing will remain necessary until next year

Alexei Barantsev 5:28 PM

@simonstewart I don’t have any new code for http client yet, just an item on my todo list

Marcus Merrell 5:28 PM

as you might have seen, our leadership much more optimistic :face_palm:

Simon Stewart 5:28 PM

@barancev ok. There’s no rush

Diego Molina 5:29 PM

that’s a great update @mmerrell, thanks

something else I wanted to ask is, if we could have at some point the SeleniumConf website code and assets also under the SeleniumHQ GitHub org

Simon Stewart 5:29 PM

Totes up for that

5:30 I’ve another meeting to go to

Marcus Merrell 5:30 PM

me too. that’s where things get sensitive

Simon Stewart 5:30 PM

Toodle pip

Marcus Merrell 5:30 PM

but I think we need to head in that direction

Diego Molina 5:30 PM

and as part of this, add the general conference guidelines to the governance doc

Marcus Merrell 5:30 PM

yep, that’s on my plate

Diego Molina 5:30 PM

that’s fine, we can stop here as we have no more time

5:31

but we can keep the topic in our head for informal discussions

Simon Stewart 5:31 PM

You can carry on without me. I’m fine with that :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 5:31 PM

and have a status of it in the next meeting

5:32

to respect people’s time, we will end the meeting here, I will upload the minutes to selenium.dev, and prepare an agenda for the next one

5:32

thank you everyone!

Blog: Public Project Meeting - April 9, 2020

Sun, 19 Apr 2020 00:00:00 +0000

Archived meeting minutes

All meeting minutes can now be found here.

As an initiative to bring more transparency to the Selenium project, we are now holding bi-weekly public project meetings. These are written meetings which are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Here is the timeline of the meeting held on April 9, 2020 (times are on CET).

The next meeting will be on April 23, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.

Simon Stewart 4:31 PM @adamgoucher there needs to be a calendar invite for these things

adamgoucher 4:32 PM well, originally the idea was that people could manage their own calendars but if you send me which email you want it attached to i can add you to the one ive been putting people on who wanted an invite

4:35 anyhow; here’s the rough approximation of an agenda. we’ll see how it goes;

anything governance-y that needs to be discussed in public (not limited to, but including public announcement of people getting the commit bit, etc.)
status of prs
status of issues
status of se project related events (india, chicago are the big ones)
next release status and/or timeline
go around the metaphorical table on how people are doing against things they signed up for
anything that needs to get sussed out in public (from reading the channel, the main thing that came up is the js discussion)
open the floor for other discussions either instigated by ’project people

4:38 anything governance-y that needs to be discussed in public (not limited to, but including public announcement of people getting the commit bit, etc.)

Diego Molina 4:38 PM if there is time, let’s add the recent topic of adding go bindings

adamgoucher 4:38 PM has there been an sfc call recently? (i cant remember when they are)

Diego Molina 4:40 PM governance related, I’d say: we need to define where we put these meetings minutes, how we announce them widely (do we need?), and that we still need a code of conduct

adamgoucher 4:41 PM ok. @diemol pester my monday morning if i haven’t figured out how to get them onto the blog by then

Diego Molina 4:41 PM So, meetings minutes… we can put them in the same format as a blog entry, and we can tag/label them so they are publicly accessible I can do that, I would just need the contents of the previous meetings, and also add small instructions on how to add new ones

adamgoucher 4:43 PM i think we just start with this one. i didnt take the most excellent notes the last couple and they might have expired out the channel (havent scrolled up to check)

Diego Molina 4:43 PM ok, so I will start doing that with this onee

adamgoucher 4:44 PM who is the point person for the code of conduct

Diego Molina 4:44 PM @AutomatedTester said something about being working on it? 4:44 but we currently have a draft, why don’t we use that draft and iterate on it?

adamgoucher 4:45 PM makes sense. as we did with the other doc

4:46 ok. next thing on the list is status of prs. which @AutomatedTester has been culling like a mad man over the last week and we’re down the 62

4:47 followed closely by status of issues and there is now 402 which i think he is also attacking (but i dont have a number from 2 weeks ago)

Diego Molina 4:48 PM perhaps we should set up a project health status dashboard I saw a couple of OSS projects that could do that

adamgoucher 4:49 PM could be interesting. of course we could also then get into wild semantic discussions around ‘what’ healthy is. :smile:

4:50 next; status of se project related events (india, chicago are the big ones)

4:51 i saw that seconf india has been moved to september. how is chicago looking?

Diego Molina 4:51 PM I think no one is around who could reply that question

David Burns 4:52 PM I also think it’s too early to comment. Chicago is in lockdown at the moment for the foreseeable

4:52 we also need to be see how many venues are still around when we come out of our homes

Isaul Vargas 4:53 PM As for big cities in the US, only by End of May can we know if restrictions will be lifted due to testing and lowering the curve.

adamgoucher 4:53 PM (it has more of a recurring agenda item more than me seeing someone who can answer)

4:54 and restrictions will be lifted in june and clamped back down in july. as is the way in a pandemic. (and really, will be until we get a vaccine)

4:55 next item; next release status and/or timeline. @simonstewart?

Simon Stewart 4:55 PM India has been moved to later in the year

4:56 We’re running the 4.0 release in the open: https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/projects/2

4:56 The config stuff won’t be too horrible. I’m quite liking the fact that TOML opens up some options

adamgoucher 4:56 PM yup. so is your plan still ‘push the button on stage to do the release and retire for your daily beverage’ or are we aiming for a same-ish part of the calender

Simon Stewart 4:56 PM When we ship, I stand down

4:57 I’d still like to get the betas out soon

4:57 But there are some big pieces missing before we can get to that point

4:58 The big one being the CDP stuff across Grid, which I’ve many of the moving parts for in various branches on my machine

Diego Molina 4:58 PM when I look at the things on the “to do” column, maybe 80% is Grid, right?

5:00 if so, it is something that calms me down because at least (from my side), I am having slowly more time to work on the code

5:00 but there are a couple of things on that list which concern me: IDE to the monorepo (and build it with bazel) + implement CDP and relative locators in JS

David Burns 5:01 PM I am doing the IDE to mono repo now

5:01 relative locators in JS should be easy, I can do it or talk @harsha509 through it

Diego Molina 5:02 PM but in the IDE, what is our approach in terms of browser extension vs. electron

5:02 right now we could only do the browser extension, right?

David Burns 5:02 PM that is separate from the mono repo work

5:03 these are questions for @tourdedave and @corevo

Simon Stewart 5:03 PM Right now, there’s just the browser extension, but @tourdedave and @corevo did start work on the electron port

5:03 I’m not sure what kind of progress they’re making, if any

Diego Molina 5:04 PM ok, so it seems we will only focus on the browser extension for now

adamgoucher 5:07 PM ok, so to summarize; all the known to-dos are in the github project india has been shifted, but dont want to just move the target to september aiming for betas to start soon, grid cdp is really the last big hurdle until those can start

Diego Molina 5:08 PM and the JS stuff, right?

5:08 (CDP + relative locators)

adamgoucher 5:09 PM i think we can skip the next thing which is ‘how are people progressing on the stuff they signed up for’ with a ‘see the github project’

5:11 because the next thing on the list i prepared was - anything that needs to get sussed out in public which, for today, means ‘what to do about javascript’. not sure that anything got resolved the other day but i think the core of it is ‘webdriver.js is the official binding but not under the auspices of the project’ or something?

Simon Stewart 5:11 PM To reiterate feedback from other people, and my own reflections:

5:12 There is a general feeling that the selenium project should own the core of its own bindings We’ve gone from having basically no-one interested in JS to having Sri on board (@harsha509) We’ve not nailed down the overall strategy yet

5:14 Which kind of suggests not using webdriver.io’s webdriver module, but continuing to work with our own stuff

5:14 Unless that module moves under the aegis of the project

Diego Molina 5:15 PM oh, actually I was talking to @christian-bromann about it, and he manifested again his interest to help move the JS bindings to use the webdriver package, and leave things ready for someone who wants to maintain the bindings

Simon Stewart 5:15 PM And if the code for the webdriver package was in our repo, I think that’s probably what we’d do

Diego Molina 5:16 PM I am not a 100% sure that he is ok with moving the code from that package to our repo but in the worst case, would a copy/fork of the code work?

Simon Stewart 5:17 PM That seems like a bad idea

Christian Bromann 5:17 PM What is the problem of not having the webdriver binding in the Selenium repo?

Simon Stewart 5:18 PM The feedback I’ve had from several people has been that they’re deeply uncomfortable with it, and won’t approve of it

5:18 It’s not just a technical thing

5:18 There are the social aspects to consider too

Christian Bromann 5:19 PM I understand.

Diego Molina 5:20 PM well, the idea of the committees is to reach consensus in these cases, and it looks like we would never reach it for this situation

Christian Bromann 5:20 PM Well the idea of generating raw bindings based of some json files is pretty easy to reimplement and I am happy to support how it can be done.

5:22 copying over the code form WebdriverIO to Selenium is rather difficult as it depends on some other wdio utilities (logging and utility functions)

Simon Stewart 5:22 PM I do wonder how far adrift the JS bindings are

5:23 The obvious missing 4.0 features are relative locators and the CDP integration

5:23 The CDP integration isn’t nailed down properly anywhere. We’ve got access to the raw protocol, but we’ve yet to build the abstractions people would actually write against

Christian Bromann 5:23 PM Given the situation I am would be also happy to invite the Selenium JS contributor to the WebdriverIO org to ensure code access and ability to merge/review code changes.

Simon Stewart 5:24 PM Thank you

Diego Molina 5:25 PM well, then it seems JS bindings stay as they are hopefully we all find a way to make them fit for the 4.0 release

5:25 should we talk about the go bindings?

adamgoucher 5:26 PM thats the only other thing on my list

Simon Stewart 5:26 PM We can talk about Go bindings

5:27 Miki offered to donate https://github.com/tebeka/selenium to the project a while ago

5:27 I got busy and had health issues, so dropped things on the floor

5:27 Should we pick that back up again?

adamgoucher 5:28 PM is he also intending to maintain it (dunno the status of them) or is it a ‘i did a thing and dont need it anymore so someone can pick it up if they want’

Simon Stewart 5:28 PM I dunno

5:28 That would be part of the conversation

David Burns 5:29 PM if it’s the latter then I am not sure we would want them. It’s amazingly nice but the maintenance burden, potentially, doesnt feel worth it

Simon Stewart 5:30 PM Indeed

5:30 But it would be nice to have some “official” Go bindings.

adamgoucher 5:30 PM i know nothing about go, but i feel like the bar for any binding to be included in the main project; is it maintained? is it idomatically correct for the language? is there not a competing, more obvious one to incorporate?

Simon Stewart 5:30 PM Turns out that people like them

5:30 s/them/the language/

Diego Molina 5:30 PM seems it is worthy to give the conversation a go

5:30 who would like to drive that conversation with Miki?

Simon Stewart 5:31 PM It’s pretty dormant right now, but is that due to being complete? My understanding is “yes” Nothing that I’m aware of

5:31 puts finger on nose

adamgoucher 5:31 PM sounds like ‘you are a go’ for the conversation about go. as it were

Simon Stewart 5:31 PM Not me

5:31 Yeah, I think it’s a conversation that’s well worth having

Diego Molina 5:32 PM I can see from a quick look that the go bindings have vendor stuff in it, for example it has the ability to use Sauce Labs out of the box

5:33 even if I work for Sauce, we need to see all those things in case we want to merge them

Simon Stewart 5:34 PM Aye

Diego Molina 5:36 PM I know how the Grid works (in general), but I still have black spots in my head when talking about bindings we need someone who knows how bindings should work and do a check on the go bindings

adamgoucher 5:37 PM sounds like ‘we think having the go bindings in the main project is cool, but currently the people in the channel right now dont have enough interest (or knowledge) to drive the conversation’

5:38 likely also have to talk to sfc about rights transfer and such. though the existing licensing could cover it

Diego Molina 5:39 PM maybe we bring the topic back in 2 weeks and see how people feel?

Simon Stewart 5:40 PM SGTM

adamgoucher 5:41 PM ok. i didnt have anything else? did anyone else?

Simon Stewart 5:42 PM I’ve got other meetings to attend, so nowt from me

adamgoucher 5:43 PM taking silence from the rest as a no. thanks everyone!

Diego Molina 5:43 PM Thank you all!